Now, how about your paddle sports education?

Again, a lot of it was just being in the right place at the right time.

There was a spare place on a course that was running.

Somebody, somebody dropped out of an assessment, so I, I got to take that space.

My first official certification would've been the old British Canoeing Instructor Award, and that would've been early '90s, I guess.

Certainly not because I like being on assessments, but I somehow, somehow seem to keep getting talked into going to training and assessment courses.

By the mid to late '90s, I'd done my level five sea kayak coach-Then I moved to the States, started getting a little more involved with American Canoe Association.

So now, not everybody's expedition is eight weeks in Nepal.