any disagreements I have with

him...

I take a more primitivist approach that is pre-Augustinian.

The church fathers before Augustine had very different views than he introduced.

Augustine, before he was a Christian, he was a philosopher of the camp called Manichaeanism.

And when he became a Christian, he renounced Manichaeanism.

But then later in his life, when he was in discussions and debates with a man named Pelagius, Augustine kind of revived some of his Manichean sympathies.

This is your show.

Okay.

That they didn't have shows, I guess.

But, so our fathers carried on and helped, you know, with their dad showing a few horses.

At that time, it was, like, 100 little local fairs around.

Every little village had a fair, and you took the horses.

So we were fortunate enough to grow up into that.

Like, you know, there was maybe not every little village, but most.

Yep.

Tell me a bit about that journey.

So, yeah, I'd been in San Francisco for four years and I decided not to relocate to New York.

And I made the tough choice to exit the beer industry, which I loved.

And I decided to stay in the beer area.

And I joined Visa, which was a great 13 years when I joined It was post-IPO.

At that point, the European part, Europe was not part of Visa Inc.

And then it became part of Visa Inc.

Were there people along your career path who had an extraordinary influence on it?