So what are some highly practical ways that an organization can translate their raw monitoring and evaluation data into those high impact stories that really, really justify a larger corporate investment?

Yeah, look, I think every boardroom has head and heart in it.

Every room has head and heart, right? Some people will look at a spreadsheet and light up because they can learn a lot of stuff.

Other people will not care about the spreadsheet.

They'll care about the story behind the spreadsheet, right? I'm one of those people that kind of skews more towards, I want to know the narrative story.

That's important to me, right? I can read a spreadsheet to determine whether the data is there.

And if you think about it, data can tell me something happened.

What exactly does radical kinship look like in practice? And how does building this kind of deep, authentic community connection actually lead to more stable revenue and better donor retention?

Yeah.

Well, it's simple.

You said SROI, right? A social return on investment.

A social enterprise should have an SROI.

It should, right? We're not trying to raise revenue always.

We're trying to, I don't know, get more people employed or get more people access to gainful employment.

The nonprofits, in our belief, the nonprofits, those closest to the work and the pain should lead with what success is, right? Because they're running the intervention.

yeah

So what does this community-centered data practice look like, and what might a workflow look like? How does a nonprofit or funder really operate in this more mindful capacity to ensure that they are partnered, that they're putting resources behind the right programs? And maybe it's not even just a matter of whether the company or the organization deserves funding, rather that the funding is going into the right projects that actually serve the mission.

Yeah, I, I, I definitely would avoid the word deserve, right? I think that kind of word is tough because it's like a-- it's an opinion-based thing, right? Like I-- you deserve or you don't.

You might not like what I'm funding or what I'm work-- issue area I'm working in, but it's not about deserve, and I think it's important the language will matter, right? But I'll, I'll take this.

We can take this a lot of different ways, but what I would say is let's talk about empowerment.

A lot of funders will give out money to a typical issue area, so let's just say workforce development.

So funders putting out a lot of the capital into workforce development.

Well, they might fund ten, fifteen, twenty, a hundred different nonprofits that do that kind of work.

So just before we talked because we've been on the [laughs]