Then what?

So I had done a lot of internships when I was at university and very reasonably early on in my law degree, I decided I didn't want to be a lawyer.

And I therefore started like leaning into more of the finance societies, investment societies, because I think the scary thing in that industry is it's so competitive and you have to start quite early if you want to get an internship because the internship is the path to get a job.

And so I was on the finance society, applied for loads of internships, did lots of extracurricular activities, and then did a summer internship with JP Morgan.

And I actually don't think JP Morgan even go to Bristol anymore, but when they came to the kind of open day, and they had their little stall, and they had a stall for M&A, and they had a stall for equity markets, and they had the kind of debt and let thin folks.

And I got speaking to the Lev Finn folks, and I thought this kind of sounds interesting.

It doesn't have, you know, the kind of soul destroying nature of M&A and that you spend two years working on something that doesn't actually materialize.

I know you did a lot of trials and, you know, let's talk about up to the time that you actually got a customer to buy it.

As it was a great, great newspaper, what was it like to work at the Sun?

I got there in the '70s, but the Sun was still in the '30s.

Well, no, it was in the '50s and they didn't understand what was going on in journalism, which was under the aegis of the Washington Post style section, the rebirth of feature sections and deep, long narratives, feature stories that rivaled magazine stories.

And I was part of a radical movement to bring the Sun into the '70s, and it was a very exciting time.

It was a rough time.

There was some labor difficulties.

There's a gulf between the old-timers and the hot new kids.

Instead of unfolded backwards, you don't start by saying, "Look at this compelling person." You start by saying, "Look at this kind of non-entity," and then he just kind of, like peeling the onion, he just keeps growing and becoming more complex as the book goes on.