You touched a little bit on the materials used in crafts, right? Like the way materials are created is also changing, right? You can find artificially grown materials in the lab, right? And that even maybe romantic story that sometimes gets attached to where material is found, how real it is, is lost in this process, right? Like, how do you see that transforming in the way people working with crafts are using materials and how their output changes and What do you think about these artificially grown materials?

Well, there's a whole subject there in itself because it's a really important debate that's happening.

And it has been happening, to be fair, for a very long time.

Because I think goldsmiths and silversmiths, for example, always valued the materials they work with and would recycle because of the cost of the materials.

So the process of capturing the dust or the offcuts of materials and then... collecting that dust and remelting it back into a solid piece of metal and then stretching that into a bar or rolling it into a sheet or drawing it down into a wire is a fundamental process that you learn as a goldsmith and it's honouring the material, recycling and reusing, so not wasting.

which I think is a very important lesson for us all to know about not taking things for granted and actually making our materials as sustainable as possible.

But you mentioned synthetic materials being increasingly available.

So that's the part of becoming a master at your craft, right? um how important is that commercial part of becoming a craftsman meaning knowing how to sell your work promote your work you know everything that creators usually hate but when you face the realities of life, you have to learn to do that as well, right? So how is that integrated? And maybe there are some tips that you can share with people who would want to do this professionally and are struggling maybe.