So how have you found those transitions into some of the more SME-sized businesses and payments, crypto, fintech, where we are at

the moment? Yeah, it's been a very interesting transition.

As you can imagine, when you start your career, an investment bank is already quite a large, established organization.

I remember when I started at UBS, they were celebrating their 150th year.

So very established, especially in the risk management space.

So moving from such an established organization into a newer organization, organization and industries such as the crypto space was definitely a transition for me.

I saw it as a very exciting opportunity to take what I've learned and experienced in a more established firm and apply that to a new industry, somewhere that was still growing, still trying to understand the regulatory landscape, still trying to build those frameworks up from scratch, and also really promoting that risk culture in that space that's historically known as the wild, wild west.

make that achievable then within your current company so crypto how did you bring people on board with that journey