oh sorry yep sorry when you moved from from from Melbourne to London and and and took on that much bigger role what was the shift in you internally like how do you go from copywriter to creative director and how do you see those skills as as as a sequence as a difference as seniority and how do other people think about you know making those similar leaps

Yeah, good question.

I am one of those people.

My friend Jill Powell, who was running the program at RMIT, did a PhD on creativity in the workplace, and she went and interviewed all of the great creative directors around the world.

This was pre-Zoom, so it was probably the junker of a lifetime, including the likes of people like Trevor Beatty.

And they all said pretty much the same thing, which was my philosophy, which is, I'm waiting to be found out.

I'm waiting for one day someone to tap me on the shoulder and go, you know what, you're maybe not as good as we thought you were.

Is that true? And how did that come about?