What's your sort of taking the temperature on where the workforce and staffing are at at the moment?

I think the NHS staff survey is telling us where the workforce are at.

So I agree with everything that Karen said.

I think the reality for colleagues is there's a real disconnect around the story about productivity that is backed up by evidence.

So you can't get away from some of the kind of facts.

But the experience of staff on a day-to-day basis, the vast majority of people I talk to, if we're kind of out speaking to our frontline teams in particular, feel that they're overwhelmed by demand.

And that gets back to some of the things Keira and others were talking about yesterday around, we've got an episodic reactive secondary care system that if that's what you need is brilliant at it, trying to...

What's your advice for those involved in them and your experience?