So how did you become interested in communication specifically within the realm of surgery?

Yeah, so I think you're right.

I think some of the stereotypes still persist, don't they? So it's not seen as a surgeon's natural habitat, right? So I actually saw an interview for this role with the New Medical School.

I kind of tackled that directly interview with the panelists.

I said, right, let's address the kind of elephant in the room here.

I'm proposing that you appoint a surgeon to do this and it's not, it's still, I think there is some perception that, you know, stereotypes are decisive, maybe action orientated, but then maybe comp skills is kind of seen as less important, but I don't believe that's the case.

You know, I think it's, I kind of make that point to the recruiting panel that, you know, if you're willing to Appoint a surgeon as a clinical communication skills teacher, that sends a hidden message, doesn't it? That actually this is important stuff.

How much is the oral exam really testing our ability as surgeons? And how much is this really just an exercise in how polished we can sound?