What what are those experiences that taught you about building your own investment philosophy?

I worked with the same group of folks at Bankers Trust, Oxif, and Cyrus.

And starting at Bankers Trust, I think you really understand the concept of credit and leveraged finance.

And I think that that still sticks with me, the ability to look across the entire capital structure.

Ultimately, they're all related.

Equity, preferred, unsecured debt, secured debt, they're all ultimately different claims on the stream of the cash flow.

And you have to understand how each of these parts intermingle.

Well,