What was the moment when you realized that that just wasn't the life that you wanted?

It's so funny, Sophie, and it's very kind of you to ask because I think a lot of people think about corporate careers, especially in the UK, as being like the thing that a lot of people do, right? And you're nodding because I, I know that most people I speak to, uh, are under the same pretense, which is like, in general, people do the, the school thing, maybe university or not, and they go and jump in straight into a, a career.

And it never really occurred to me that I could do anything else other than that.

I remember seeing a few people online and being like, "Mm, they must be scammers," or, "They must be, like, faking it.

There's no way that that thing exists." And there are two kind of moments that happened for me, Sophie.

The first was I went to a place, uh, called Bali, which I'm sure sh- some of your listeners know.

And I was very fortunate to go there 'cause that was a massive accident.

What have been your experiences with that? Have you had any grief?