Just give us headlines about how you got into that and what you did and, and where you are today.

Um, I worked in supermarkets, Morrison's initially, when I sort of left school with A-levels.

Went into their management training scheme.

And yeah, it was hard graft working in retail, um, as anyone will tell you really, but I used to deal with all the reps and, um, I remember seeing, like, the beer reps coming in and I'd be signing off their orders and everything, and it was...

I just said to one of them, "How do I get a job like yours?" And he said, uh, "My job...

Well, I'm getting promoted, so my job's becoming available.

I'll put a good word in for you." So that got me out of Morrison's after seven years, and I went to work for Courage.

[laughs]