So it is useful and helpful, I think, expose people and say, like, hey, did you notice that we're destroying this ecosystem? Are you aware that this beautiful green rolling hills is actually what you're looking at is a collapsed ecosystem? Like, for example, in Ireland and the UK, right? This is just, you have a wild Atlantic way or whatever, you know, like organization

system Or is it a changing landscape? Is it a landscape that's changing? There's a lot of shifts in mindset that are happening in Western Europe at the moment.

And these struggles, the arguments that I hear on your podcast and others of people arguing one thing is better than another, it's all part of a mix.

But overall, even the most hardened and conservative today you can have a robust and quite lucid conversation with anybody about the importance of nature and they'll agree with you.

So things have changed.

So I talk about Hans Rosling's work, which is really fascinating.

The late Hans Rosling did a study where he He toured the world with a load of questions which he knew very precise answers.

Screw the red squirrels and leave off because nature will balance itself out, right? So these are like