When do you realize when an event has actually hit its ceiling or when the team is really not, you know, happy with pulling that growth lever off?

Okay, so I think in terms of event growth, ultimately our limiting factor is physical space, right? I think if you've got a project that is venue-bound, then you're facing challenges of how do I strip out elements of that event and launch satellite events, which was something that Big Five did very successfully.

But at Frankfurt, it was a different set of challenges.

I was trying not to be commercially responsible.

We put a leadership team in place, operational head, marketing head, commercial head.

We brought HR into a leadership function.

There had not been a leadership function previously, so that was a big learning exercise for everybody to be able to stay away.

and