I mean, Simon, does it surprise you that the investment community, that those that are thinking about this subject all the time, that those lessons aren't learned? Or is it impossible to learn the lesson for something that's constantly changing?

I think the problem is there is so much money chasing these areas that if you don't participate, that money will go elsewhere and somebody else will facilitate that.

So I think what we tried to do is just stand back from that and say, look, If everyone's going over there, there may be other areas that are being left behind that might be opportunities where we can have a lot more confidence in the cash we're going to get back, the return we're going to get on investment, the dividends we're going to earn from investing in these companies, the assets we're buying on behalf of shareholders.

So I think one of the great things about having an investment trust like the Merchants Trust is we've got permanent capital.

from shareholders and a board who will back us to say, okay, I can't really be sure about that area over there.

There may be a great opportunity, but in this area here, the stock market, even though it's out of favour, there's some really strong businesses trading at incredibly unusual valuations.

And if we buy them at those levels and hold them for four or five years, we should make a very good return and generate a good income stream.

and what we've always focused on, and that will come and pay us dividends in the long run.

But, you know, if it's strong, if there are very strong views, I mean, Simon, that must be something that you have to think about.

Absolutely.

And I think the first thing is we all respect each other.

So we can disagree quite passionately sometimes about an investment idea or when, whether a company, it's less about the company, it's usually more about whether it's a good investment than whether it's a good company.

But we can disagree about that, but we respect each other's views and opinions.

I think if there's a lead person who's really pushing something, and as I sort of tried to say earlier, and the others are okay with it, but maybe not really in agreement, but I try and encourage people to have some individual situations which they push and they monitor.

Because otherwise, one of the problems of being contrarian is often your colleagues don't agree with you either.

Anything you'd add to that, Simon?

But why does it still matter today?

I think it's a really pertinent example because during the late 90s, when the internet was really becoming a force and developing, there was a massive boom in companies associated with telecoms, media and technology, and share prices moved to extremely high valuations.

expecting or discounting enormous growth out into the future.

And it's a little bit reminiscent of what we've seen in the last year or two with the rise of generative AI and the way that the hyperscalers, as they're called, the way those shares have moved and many other, actually quite a few non-profitable technology companies as well.

So there's a parallel with what happened 25, 30 years ago.

Although there are also differences, of course, the companies at that point, 30 years ago, many of them were tiny and very small and not very profitable.

Today's most successful technology companies are often gigantic companies, but are still growing at a heady rate.

Okay, so what would you then say is the biggest behavioural lesson that you've learned over those years that shaped you? I