i think that's a really good point neil in that certainly my experience working business organizations for over two decades now is that where there is a risk perception amongst companies it's actually that peer-to-peer linkage that is really important and i think that piece around unite 1k of bringing more companies into the ambit of having these discussions with each other feels really powerful so i was going to ask you to kind of tell a And maybe explain to listeners where you see the kind of the locus for a business like Headfirst's engagement with an issue like this.

Neil Wood had a big role in my personal understanding and awareness of this area.

Neil mentioned the EAB, the Employment Advisory Boards within prisons.

I'm honoured to serve as a chair for HMP Chelmsford, where it's kind of my first exposure and understanding to the challenges of finding meaningful employment post a custodial sentence.

this was all about my education and understanding the kind of the background and the context frankly it played in beautifully as as headfirst global we are very aware of the importance of just generally inclusivity in the context of recruitment best practices and i have a you know a personal drive to articulate just how important work is as part of somebody's life If you're doing a job you don't love or don't enjoy, it will impact everything.

And if you're struggling to find work, it will impact everything.

I have this sort of personal belief that everybody deserves the opportunity to do a job they love.

But going beyond that, what's our locus here as recruiters?