What do you think a good, or with all the experience you've got, what would you advise a 20-year-old, 18, 20, 21, 22-year-old? What is a good foundational pathway? Is it a qualification? Is it a trade? Is there a difference these days? Will one hamper your progression towards upper echelon management or not? What's your perspective on it now, having gone through all this over sort of 25 years?

Yeah, it's an interesting question and I don't think there's probably any one answer.

It worked pretty well for me having that foundation and it was coupled with the opportunity that I had in working for the family business.

I worked hands-on in the business and worked holidays probably from when I was about 13 or 14.

You couldn't do that these days with workplace health and safety and whatnot.

But Even while I was working in the office, I'd go in and do weekend work.

You're a cadet, you want to get every extra dollar you can, so I'd go in and help out on the jobs if I had the opportunity.

So how do you try and create an environment and a culture and a career and all those sorts of stuff so you can actually deliver what is the goals and objectives of the business?