Mm.

But I think there, everything seems to become storytelling.

I, I, I think- I see a lot of, um, agencies and organizations say, "Well, we're really strong on storytelling." What they mean by that is they've got some nice pretty pictures and a lovely looking logo, and it, it's all very slick.

That's not really the heart of story.

That is storytelling, but what, what, what for me a story is about the, the way we create meaning in the world.

It's the oldest part of us.

Before, before language even, before we verbalized it, we were communicating through cave paintings that made connections that told story.

'Cause imagine when you say the word character, it's not always a person either.