And so I'm curious what you mean by that, but also how you then took that, the rules you learned, the rules you broke, and then translated that into building your own company.

Yeah, it kind of feels like looking back, every step in my career has been laying the groundwork for what I'm doing today, even if in the moment it didn't quite feel that way.

I started my career in management consulting, and I started in management consulting because, to be honest, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do.

I wanted to keep my options open.

I studied a very multidisciplinary set of classes when I was in my undergrad.

I was studying across the arts and sciences and humanities and wanted to figure out where I could work that sort of like combined all my interests and all my skill sets.

And consulting was something that allowed me to try a bunch of different things.

But actually, what's going to make your business successful is that human need that you're holding close.