Hemos tenido a lo mejor al mejor portero o al mejor centrocampista, pero ¿nos faltaba el icono mediático, el Beckham de su momento?

Hombre, a ver, eh, es que hay dos, dos vertientes, ¿no? Hay un vertiente puramente futbolístico y creo que no os faltaba nada.

Yo creo que la historia de España, futbolísticamente hablando, estaba, estaba bastante completa.

Pero sí que estoy de acuerdo contigo en, en esa sensación de que Lamine es diferente precisamente por eso, por la iconografía, ¿no? Por la sensación de que, oye, muy posiblemente el mejor futbolista del mundo es español, muy posiblemente.

Y aunque no fuera el mejor, sí que es verdad que es un futbolista que a mí me, me, me fascina la capacidad que ha tenido de captar la imaginación de la gente, ¿no? De, de, de que, que sea alguien que, que transmita una alegría, una bondad, un punto de, de juventud, un punto diferencial que le hace algo más que un futbolista.

Es, es muy, muy llamativo.

Pero ¿Lamine Yamal tiene ese icono que llama la atención a un lector británico medio que le gusta el fútbol sin colores?

Sí, absolutamente sí.

Talk to me about the reaction in Spain since the twenty-four hours since Real Madrid have been knocked out.

Well, as you say, the, the starting point is the reaction immediately after the game itself, with Dani Carvajal pointing at the officials and saying, "This is your fault." Jude Bellingham coming through the mixed zone and referring to the, to the red card as a joke.

And, and then as you rightl- say, the response then from, from the newspapers in the morning, both of the main Madrid dailies talking about the, the referee and focusing this game through the referee.

The other thing that I thought was very striking was that the TV channel that has the rights for this game, um, they opened with an unusually editorial, um, piece of presenting of the show that was very, very pointed towards the referee.

A-and yeah, there's, there's, there's a lot of anger about it that's, that's driven by Álvaro Arbeloa.

I think one of the things that's interesting actually is that Arbeloa, who says that the referee didn't realize he'd given him a yellow card, and that was kind of part of the explanation as to why he then gave him another one.

Now, of course, that wouldn't make the decision wrong because in theory, if it's a yellow card decision, whether you know you've given one or not, and there are two of them, that makes a red.

Don, how did you see it?

I mean, the Alvarez free kick, Sid, I mean, it, uh, it's so good, isn't it?

No, it's brilliant.

It's important for, for Julian Alvarez, who's had a really strange season.

So Julian has been built up as the, you know, the, the player that's likely to lead Atletico in the future, that's go- likely to be their, their kind of key player.

But he had a very, very difficult...

Um, he scored on the opening day away at Espanyol, and then didn't score away again, I think, for something like three months.

Went through a really poor spell in terms of his performance levels.

And [laughs] yeah, I'd be interested to hear what Sid has to say.

And Amir was telling me yesterday Alonso's basically gone, which on the outside seems kind of mad.

Yeah.

But it's Real Madrid.

Um, and, and it's, and it's the nature of it.

And I think you've got to look slightly beyond the results to, to, to the mechanics within the dressing room, to the way that they're playing, to the, to the level of performance, to the kind of tensions that you always get at Real Madrid.

On Sunday night after they were beaten by Celta de Vigo, and they weren't just beaten, they were, they were pulled about the pitch by Celta de Vigo.

It was really fascinating to watch actually.

There's, there's a problem here." Am I just being like a, you know, paranoid conspiracy typical Real Madrid conspiracist?

in that context, I suppose like how the Liverpool performance is viewed, Liverpool who aren't even playing that well in the Premier League at the moment, and how much that just was like a real shake to the confidence of the club that actually, "Okay, hang on." But when we went and played the- the big boys from the other school, it was- it was a bit different.

Yeah, there's a couple of things here.

I mean one of them, one of them is, and this- this feeds into what we were talking about before about the- the kind of the idea of- of people criticizing Real Madrid.

One of them is the idea that Madrid haven't yet played one of the big games.

So you have the Athletic Club defeat where they lose 5-2, they have the Liverpool defeat where they only lose 1-nil, but you look at the number of saves from Courtois and you think, "Oof, that could be three or four." You have the world cl- uh, Club World Cup game against PSG where they lose 4-nil, and then you win the Classico.

And one of the big things about the Classico is everyone said, "Here we go, this is a big game that Real Madrid have won." But at the same time it comes in the context of Barcelona having players out, Barcelona not playing very well, and- and then so you get this post-Anfield you get this feeling that, "Oh, could it actually be that it was more because Barca aren't that good than because Madrid really were?" And that there's a reality.

And then there's the broader context, which is that Premier League thing you're talking about.

(laughs)

Were you surprised, Sid?

Xabi Alonso would probably take issue with you using the word dropped, and I think a lot of managers do that now.

Partly they do it to protect themselves, of course, because this is dropping people.

Maybe the word is-- it sounds a bit strong, but it is dropping people, and it is shifting the formation.

And the, the managers, and Alonso did this last night, will always say, "Yeah, but I want a contribution from everyone, including those that come onto the pitch." And Vinicius came on and scored a goal and provided an assist and tried to win a pen, so he was booked for diving on that occasion.

But, you know, to give you an idea of, of, of kind of how much danger he was creating.

For what it's worth, I think the context of the game was better for him then because at that point, Oviedo had stepped forward, were trying to attack.

[laughs]

So you know it's done, right? Because it's like away goals, you know? Mar- Hernandez need two.

There's a kind of a thing that...

Obviously, it's euphoria, but I think it's more than euphoria.

It's a, it's a kind of thing of...

There's, there's almost decompression.

That, "Wow, it's actually going to happen." And, and Oviedo, because they've been through what they've been through, because as I say, twice almost went out of business.

A real sense...

But I, I just find it interesting.

Sid, as much as we take the mick on this show, this is an incredible story over what has happened over the last 13 years, and it must feel very special to have played a part in it.

Yeah.

I mean, f- (laughs) For what it's worth, the part, the part I've played in, in, in Real Oviedo's been, I think, exaggerated enormously, particularly by people in Oviedo, who treat me far better than, than I deserve to be treated.

But Oviedo's, Oviedo's story over the last 24 s- It's 24 years since they were in the first division.

In that time, they've been down to the fourth tier, the third tier, the second tier, now back into the first te- tier for the first time in, in 24 years.

On two different occasions, very, very close to going out of business in 2003 and in 2012.

On both occasions, I think this is what's made Real Oviedo special, um, because really and truly we're talking about a, a kind of a normal first division club, a normal provincial first division club, except for the fact that this experience over 24 years has given them an identity, it's given them a cause, it's given them a, a, a mobilization, and a sense of importance for the supporters themselves.

No, that's okay.

(laughs)

Because you know exactly what this means.

(laughs) Uh, it was, it was, it was genuinely...

I mean, you know, you know how there, there, there's a section of the media that loves to use the word stunned? You know, so-and-so stunned fans last night.

This was actually genuinely a moment where, where people were kind of a little bit stunned, because when he said that first bit, "Buenas tardes a todos.

Good afternoon, everybody." At that point you think, "Okay, well that's quite normal." And then the next line was in Spanish, and there was kind of a moment.

Uh, by the way, I should point out, this is two different rooms.

You can see it in his eyes, look.

Mm-hmm.

Because let's not forget, that's two different profiles of number nines, and they both work very well at different stages of the season.

I do think there's a recognition at Barcelona that Lewandowski, while the numbers have been really good this year, that there's a doubt about whether that continues into next year.

For the last two seasons, we've seen him have very good starts and less good second halves to the season.

There's obviously his age, which is a concern as well.

And so they know they need to find a replacement.

And it makes me think, and this, this is kind of based on an analysis rather than a piece of information, but it makes me think looking at it, is this decision to say, "Well, perhaps Raphinha can go through the middle," not just a technical one, but it's also market-driven? In other words, you're looking at the market and thinking, "Well, that kind of forward that can play that role for us doesn't exist, that kind of central forward doesn't exist, so how about we use the resources we've got and bring in someone else who can play wide?" And I think, you know, where this is really expressed isn't so much with Luis Diaz but it's with the interest in Marcus Rashford, and that idea that there you get a player who can do, who can do, at least in theory, both things, can play coming in off the wing or can play through the middle.

And he's back in the Spain squad as well you're saying?

So, Sid, is he the next Messi? (laughs)

Well, I mean, look, what, what, what, what Gab says, I think, I think there's an important point here and, and this goes back to what I was saying about projection.

And I think sometimes what happens, you get a young player that's really good and you assume they will keep improving.

And, and in a way that makes it so that if...

Take, take Gab's scenario in which you've got a player that's this good and remains this good, and remains this good for the rest of his career, we'll go, "Wow, what a player." But then there might, there is a possibility that within that context...

And to be honest, I felt this happened a little bit, for example, with Ryan Giggs.

That because you project onto them at 18, well, if they're already this good, imagine how good they will be.

Sid, where do you stand on that then? Wha- how do Barcelonan ma- manage him between now and, you know, his fantastic future? How, what do they have to do to make sure that they can-