So how did you get from version one to where it is now?

Yeah, that's a good question, right? We started with one feature actually.

So we started with two.

Your intro, by the way, was fabulous, but it really, the problem, the thing that leaves out is all the failure in between.

So, you know, after InvoiceSharpa, which I sold to a Canadian payments company, mostly because i had no idea what to do where to go or how to go any farther with it i was a single sole founder owner operator and a custodian and i got to tell you it sucked i coded myself into a world where i had enough customers where i could no longer write any features because i was doing customer service full time it was a horrible horrible fate that I had dealt myself, despite being able to run around and say I was successful, I felt very much like I had imprisoned myself.

And so when I had the opportunity to sell it, I mean, I remember trying to sell 100% of it and they were questioning why I'd want to do that.

And I backed down to 90% just so that they wouldn't think, there was something wrong.

What separates the agencies that retain their clients versus the ones who churn?

Like what was the mindset there when you guys were building?

Yeah, so I had a prior SaaS company in the accounts receivable automation space.

And when I sold that, I just had had a great experience sort of talking to and working with lots of small businesses.

I've been a small business guy my whole career.

And I just wanted to go out and like serve them in a different way because I sort of ran out of gas on that idea.

It actually got bought by somebody who was way smarter than me and knew how to take it away.

But in working with all these small businesses, I learned they wanted more customers and I just wanted to give them more customers.

In those early days when you were selling to those marketing agencies, were you replacing existing software or were you convincing them to not use Google Sheets or spreadsheets or pen and paper or whatever it would be?