Yeah.

But then at the high end, it's like, OK, am I going to make you fill out this workbook on your own or are we going to sit for two hours and I'm going to interview you? Like, what can I take off of your plate? Are you going to how can I make it so that you're spending you're spending the least amount of time? And I'm taking on like the majority of of the parts of the project that typically stall the projects out.

And how can I frame that to you in a way that it's like this option is perfect for you if time is your most important thing and the cost of your time matters.

Spending it here is going to actually cost you more than if I just do this whole thing for you.

Right.

Versus maybe at a lower level, I'm giving you a workbook to fill out.

And maybe at an even lower level, I'm just spinning up a site for you, handing it over.

So in terms of your payment terms, in terms of your payment terms, What is your policy for payment on these things? Is it all up front? Is it partially? Is it milestone based or date based?

And

so, so then I assumed all of those responsibilities.

I had been doing them all before.

Then I took them back over.

And you and I have known each other for such a long time, and you have given me such good advice when you've come on my podcast to share, like, you've got to stop doing these things.

I've been on the Web Designer Academy podcast as well.

Yeah.

What are some of the, nuggets that you've been able to capture or harness in order to make that such a beautiful working environment? I

So before we get started, I would love for you to tell the people, what do you do and what got you started? How did you get where you

are? Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

So I got my start doing freelance web design on the side of my day job.

way back in the early 2000s.

And yeah, so I was like learning to build websites at my day job and people were asking me, you know, like, oh, who built that website for your company? And I'm like, oh, I did.

They're like, do you do any work on the side? I'm like, okay, sure.

And so I started doing freelance web design and quickly realized that I wasn't charging enough.

Like, talk a bit more about what you do, I guess, in the space with your clients.