and

start speaking about it and investigating it um so on and off up until I was about 28 that was my main work in the world um and then i essentially had a breakdown from being in the system from the full-time hours uh the way it was run the sort of hopelessness that can underpin that work even though it's very important and necessary and so that drove me into a spot of like I need to be my own boss.

I need to create something on my terms.

And yeah, I need to do something that is very much what's needed collectively, but also is outside of what the system is giving as a remedy and a solution, because I wasn't fully convinced that it was totally on the mark.

So for the last nine, eight or nine years I've been running my own business.

I've had waves of success for me.

I think success is relative.

So what would you say to them with all that going on? I