Might that need to happen now, just to kind of move them away from that bad image?

At the moment they're preparing an implementation plan for reform of the RSA, which will be coming to me in the coming weeks.

and that's what we're doing there.

We are reforming the RSA, reforming it from within, and we will continue to do that.

I'm just waiting to get their implementation plan.

There are a lot of things that the RSA do.

There's a lot of things that they're responsible for, such as driver testing, truck driver testing, the NCT for trucks, all of that, as well as the front-facing with the public in relation to road safety, and all that goes with that.

How will that be judged by yourself, Minister Kenny? What parameters will we put in place to ensure that when they do implement change that it has been a success?

Tell us about this new proposal which is coming before the Dáil this week.

Yeah, good morning John and to your listeners.

Yes, this is something that I think is going to be transformative for Galway City and indeed other urban areas across the country.

This is giving the powers to the revenue to collect a derelict properties tax.

We can see it in Galway City.

For example, there are properties close to City Hall, indeed, on the way towards the Huntsman.

There are properties on Shop Street that have been derelict for nearly 30 years.

Why will revenue actually succeed in that regard?

How many new public transport services will be provided as a result of the budget, and how many of those will be in rural Ireland?

Well, there's 140, um, new, uh, routes that are, uh, being targeted to be delivered.

There's a mix of, uh, Rural Link.

There's, uh, and other public, uh, transport.

Um, and what we're doing at the moment is both Minister Gerry Buttimer, Minister Darragh O'Brien, and I will be sitting down with officials, uh, to see how we can maximize this funding to make sure we deliver as many of these, um, projects as we can.

We have had, um, huge interest and demand for public transport, which is good, and what we need to do as a government, and the responsibility in our department, is to ensure that we deliver on the services that people demand.

They say you promised it would be funded in budget 2027.

Yeah.

What was discussed?

Well, obviously, uh, first of all, um, I would like to, uh, give everything, uh, out, what we discussed.

But generally, we discussed how we can actually provide a budget that will actually help people who are in fuel poverty, looking at the cost of living, and also to see how we can get a balanced approach to helping people.

Uh, it was a meeting that lasted for probably about two, two and a half hours.

Very constructive meeting.

And, uh, I suppose what has ha- happened from that then is that the, uh, Department of Social Protection go back, crunch the numbers, and see where things will land in terms of if we take certain measures, what the costs would be and how we can actually keep, uh, k- keep that right.

And, uh, so it's, it's part of the, what I would call, the normal business of agreeing a budget, and other departments are at the same thing, uh, trying to, um, m- keep their, their figures, uh, in- intact, but at the same time, to try and, uh, stretch it to get as much out of it for, for, for the general public.

How confident are you that the ban will keep children off e-scooters?

If the Guards can't or won't enforce the new laws, how are they going to work?

First of all, I would say that we've had discussions with the Commissioner of the Guards and the Department of Justice.

There are issues around pursuit and all of that, and we are preparing legislation today in conjunction with the draft of justice which will be enacted in the coming months.

This is to give protection to Gardaí in the pursuit of people who are doing illegal activities and this is to protect the Gardaí in the course of their duty.

Of course, we would all like to see more Gardaí on the beach.

We'd like to see more people, more visibility.

The Gardaí are stepping that up.

He says there's no capital budget and the projects the government talks about have been outstanding for years.

Nobody doubts the horror of deliberately driving the wrong way on a motorway, but what evidence do you have that longer prison sentences would actually stop the type of person who's prepared to do this?

Yeah, I suppose we can all question what's the best thing to do.

We have an issue around pursuit.

If somebody blatantly goes out onto the motorway, how do you stop them physically on the motorway and their speeding? without putting the risk of other people or Gargi in place.

It's something that really...

And I want to say clearly that those people who go down the wrong slipway onto a motorway inadvertently because they made an error, that's not the people we're talking about here, it's the people who actually decide, well, I'm going to go down this way to make case to get away from something or to get to something, which leads to other things.

So I think that's where we're at.

Well,

Was that discussed or is there any viability to

that? That was discussed.

And when you look at it, you say, yeah, that will take out the tyres of the car.

and it means that the car won't be able to travel, but some cars will, if they want to keep going, they will travel without the tyres having air in them, and they will cause more damage to other cars and be more dangerous.

The other thing is that if you have emergency services that need to get onto a motorway, that these, what we call the blades of them sticking up off the ground, could be an impediment to first responders as well.

So there's pros and cons to that and the information coming from the US where this has been used extensively over a number of decades is that they're pulling away from that type of solution because it's not working, it's actually causing more problems than it is solving in lots of instances.

Yes, everything was discussed in terms of technologies, in terms of even we talked about the behaviour of people on the road and on motorways and how they actually have to realise that they're taking personal responsibility and how people cope with the care coming against them.

Do you think they've stepped up to the plate now?

Can you tell us, please, what was discussed at the meeting today?

Uh, yes.

Well, first of all, uh, the me- I convened the meeting to, uh, sit down and discuss what is happening, uh, on our motorways in terms of, uh, traffic and people driving down the wrong side of the motorways, uh, how prevalent it was, who was doing it, and what actions we can take to try and prevent it.

Uh, we had, uh, very good research from the Road Safety Authority, and, uh, we also had a presentation from the Garda on the pursuit of people and how they deal with that and what they're doing.

Um, the TII gave us a, an insight into what they have in terms of data in relation to incidents and accidents and mortalities on the, uh, motorways.

Uh, Department of Justice were there.

Uh, their senior officials were there as well, as well as my own officials.

... was there any outcomes or upshots from this discussion?

Although, although I would, I, I would argue, Minister, the ma- the amount of people that are doing it accidentally is very, very small, as opposed to those who are doing it deliberately.

Not necessarily from the figures I've seen, but I, that's why I want to have the meeting to go through, do the analysis, see exactly what we can do.

There are a number of things that I have in my head.

So for instance, um, are there, um, how do we, do we need more signage, uh, o- on the slip roads, uh, to alert people to the fact that if they are censored going the wrong way, that if something flashes, gives them that, uh, first of all.

Secondly, there's the question of, uh, early, uh, early, I suppose, alertness, uh, through technology with cameras to say, "Well, somebody's on this road going the wrong direction," a- and that immediately the guards can be informed and then decide how best to deal with it.

There's, uh, areas in relation to, from my own perspective, I would be looking at, let's say, roads we're building.

Should we build, be building an infrastructure into them roads to make sure that they are, um, that they have that alertness or whatever to feed back into, um, into control centers that the Gardai would, would have.

I- i- it, this is, this is, uh, is such a fast, uh, acting thing, I, I'm kind of at a loss to understand what actually could be done to stop them in their tracks.

Why have you made this decision now?

Well, I suppose since we first, this conflict started in Iran and with the fluctuation in the cost of fuel and the cost of doing business, we brought in measures to try and counteract that and try and support business and support people including the excise duty on petrol and diesel at the pump.

We always said, and we continue to say it, and I've said it as late as last Monday, that we continue to review the situation because the situation geopolitically is very, what I would call, unsure.

And whilst we have supports in place, we had put, we said, deadlines by which they would be reversed.

But we said also that we would continue to review the situation as it developed.

And as we can see right now, with the conflict still ongoing and the peace process or the agreement on how things could go back to normal, finding it difficult to reach a settlement, it is important that we review and continue to review what we are doing and the supports we put in place.

So we have taken...

So how worried were you that without a change of plan, people would take to the streets again?

Tell us, I suppose, firstly, your reaction to what happened in the early hours of yesterday.

Well, first of all, I suppose the words would be shock, horror and a sense of total unbelievable that something like this could be done and that people have done what I would call undertaking reckless behaviour with a car on our public roads.

not alone putting, and this happened twice in the last week, not alone putting their own lives at risk, but also putting the lives of innocent people at risk.

And when most people obey the laws, most people abide by the rules, most people get on with their business, but when somebody faces a car coming against them, like that family on the way to the airport yesterday morning, it's indescribable, and I think it's something that...

We just have got to condemn outright.

There is no excuse.

It's reckless.

And yet it couldn't have been much worse.

Do you accept that what we're doing when it comes to road safety is not working, or at least not working well enough, and we need to change our approach?

Well, I would say that, uh, there's a number of factors at play here, and I think it's also very important to state that we have had, since 2014, an increase of 750,000 additional people in our country.

So, that, that, that's the f- the first thing.

So, there are more cars, there are more people.

But yes, we can all do more.

From a personal responsibility point of view, everybody can do, uh, better.

Everybody can make sure that they, uh, have their seat belt on, that they are driving within the speed limits, that they drive with due care.

A number of years ago, it was over 1,000, and as you say, more cars, more people, fewer police.

W-what you, you're proposing, I mean, we have known some of the details for the past week or so, and I suppose for many people, the fundamental question is this: Why are you choosing this particular approach rather than enforcing the existing laws?

Yeah, well, I suppose, uh, first of all, uh, the existing, uh, rules and regulations that are there, they were brought in in 2024, and we've seen, uh, for instance, uh, the reports from CHI and the number of children in, uh, Temple Street, uh, who are on life support with severe head injuries as a result of, uh, collisions on e-scooters, with e-scooters.

And, uh, that is why we have decided right now to bring in some regulations, uh, which are being, uh, acted upon right now and with advice and, uh, from the, uh, Attorney General's office.

The legal drafting is proceeding to, uh, change the age limit from 16 to 18, uh, to in- make sure that, uh, make it legal for people, uh, to have to wear helmets and high-visibility clothing.

Um, and they will be signed in, in late August.

Um, there are further, uh, I suppose legislative, uh, propositions, which we're, we, we'll be bringing forward.

Uh, one of them is to change the definition of an e-scooter so that it becomes a, a, um, mobile, uh, motorized propelled vehicle or an MPV.

And just then, as far as the enforcement is concerned, will Gardai need new powers? Will they need extra training?

Why do you think all have taken a step backwards on that?

Well, I would have to say that the reason that we're not taking a step backwards, I would say that it's a case of saying, what can we do quickly so that we can put in something that would be effective? And also would help the Gardaí in identifying who owns these e-scooters.

Also, if there's a registration number on them, it's easier to detect where they're from.

So I think in light of all of that, I think on balance, what we're doing is quick steps to try and provide the Gardaí with more information, regulating the industry and also making sure that people will try and make the roads safer.

There may be other measures we need to take.

So as I said before, and I continue to say it, nothing will be off the table if this doesn't work.

But yesterday's meeting, I think we heard from the Garda Commissioner, from the Department of Justice, from the AG's office, the AG was there, as well as the Taoiseach and I, and we had a full discussion on this.

Okay, and then finally, Minister, you and the Taoiseach and the Taoiseach and the Garda Commissioners have essentially said, look, if this doesn't work, then we may still ban them.

But why 18 and not 16?

I think when we look at the reports we're getting back in from CHI, from the hospital there, we've had a 50% increase in the number of children who are being admitted with serious brain injuries.

We have seen that there are five people on life support at the moment in Tympan Street.

I'm saying to people, these are children.

These are children who should be out in giant weather.

They're on their summer holidays.

They should not be in on life support.

I'm just wondering, is this an opportunity while we have the legislative book open to maybe also address that other concern that many people have out there?

But is there enough enforcement taking place?

Yeah, well, I think with the introduction of the, um, regulation in relation to helmets, it's very easy to detect that one.

Um, you see it, uh, on a person's head or it's not on it.

High vis vest is the same way.

And also when we bring in the new designation of e- e-scooter, it would be registered more easily identifiable, and will give the Gardai more clarity on who owns it, where it came from, and, uh, where it was bought.

So I think that is very important as well.

And as you did, um, reference there, you know, more than one-third of all, uh, pediatric traumatic brain injury admissions to CHI in Temple Street in, uh, this year were related to e-scooters.

But if they're that dangerous, I mean, is a helmet necessarily going to provide enough protection? Is it safe really to have these on the roads at no matter what age you are, adult or child? Would you not be better off just banning them?

So why this set of proposals rather than that?

Well, I think the urgency of the situation, um, is such that at the moment, uh, the, um, data from the Children's Health Ireland and from the HSC is indicating a concerning pattern of serious life-changing injuries caused by e-scooters.

So basically, we have to do something, we have to do it fairly rapid.

If we were to bring in a ban, an outright ban, it would, uh, take legislation to do that, and it would, uh, probably wouldn't see the light of day before the end of the year.

So, the immediate thing is, is we, we looked at was, what can we do straight away to try and arrest what's going on at the moment? And that's why it was agreed that, um, high-vis jackets and helmets were mandatory, and that, uh, that will, uh, and the ban on people driving them will be, uh, extended to under, up to the age of under eighteens.

And there are things we can do by regulation that, um, we, I'll bring them in with government, with Minister O'Brien next week, and we will get the regulations signed in, in August, which means we will have an immediate ch- change to the rules and regulations.

Um, we're also have made the decision that we can change the definition of an e-scooter, uh, to make it now, um, uh, a mechanically propelled, uh, uh, vehicle, which means that it would come under the same rules as a motorbike or a car, and that means it would needs to be licensed.

Okay.

But for somebody who at, you know, 16 years of age, 17 years of age, bought an e-scooter legitimately under the law, has been driving it responsibly, maybe to travel to a summer job or even a young apprentice driving it, are, are you saying to them they can no longer use this mode of transport legally?

Absolutely, from once this, uh, comes in.

And look, it, while some of this might sound harsh, I think at the end of the day, what we have to do is we have to make sure that we're doing things to arrest what they call this, this, this, um, thing that's happening in relation to children and their, their injuries.

And, uh, nobody will, will thank me or thank anybody else if this continues to, to grow in numbers that are getting injured and the, uh, amount of life-changing injuries that people get as a result of this.

So, wearing a seat be- wearing a, a helmet, sorry, wearing a helmet, wearing a high-vis, uh, um, jacket so you can be seen, and also that you will be 18 years of age.

We will be bringing in further legislation, um, which will redesignate an e-scooter to make it a, a mechanically propelled vehicle the same as a car or a motorbike, and that will be coming in, uh, that legislation, I hope to have it in for early September, so that we can actually then register the e-scooters that are in this country.

We can also regulate the sale of them and also have a, an idea how many are being bought, who's buying them, and, and where are they being sold in this country, and I think that's very important as well.

So can you talk us through the, the additional powers or training or equipment that Gardaí are going to get, and how these will be effective where they haven't been before?

You must have established a, a position yourself at this point.

Well, I have established what I would say is, is a, a train of thought, but I, in fairness, I would like to have this meeting so that we can go through, uh, with officials, with the Garda commissioner, as well as with the Minister for Justice.

And also, we will have an input from the Department of Health.

The Minister for Health has done a, got a report, uh, done for us, uh, which hopefully we will be seeing this morning.

Uh, the effect that these scooters are having on people's lives and children and how many of them end up in hospital and the type of injuries they have.

And I think that's also very important when you're making your, um, when we're making a decision on what road to pursue on this, that we have all the, the facts i- in front of us so that we can make the best decision possible for safety on our roads.

And how do you achieve that?

Well, I think, uh, you've hit the nail on the head.

Are you also leaning that way?

Well, what I would say to you, it's one of the options that will be on the options paper, the pros and cons to doing that.

I think from a Garda point of view and listening to the Garda commissioner, I think what they're saying is it would be the easiest one to enforce.

We've already done a ban on scramblers and that is something that has made it easier for the Gardaí to apprehend people who are breaking the law because if the scrambler is in a public place, it's illegal, full stop.

So that is the type of consideration we have to give to this.

I'm also waiting for a further report from the Department of Health through the Minister, Jennifer Carroll-McNeill, who is helping me with this, to see how we can, to see what actually the results are when you look into the hospitals.

I listened to the surgeon there who's talking about, you know, helmets.

So, how do you balance that?

Are they right? Would you consider that?

Well, first of all, I would say it is alarming to think that we have children, young people on life support as a result of using e-scooters.

I suppose what we have to do here is look at this and say, what can we do to make them safer? And if we can't make them safer, what do we do? I'm not ruling anything out at the moment because I have been engaging with my officials and I will further meeting tomorrow to see what we can do from a legislative point of view.

But if we stop it at that and just say, right, first of all, I want parents to know that it is illegal for a child to be up on a scooter, an e-scooter, under the age of 16.

It's illegal.

The child's life has been put at risk.

And other lines are being put at risk because that's happening.

It's been torturous for us parents who simply insist on following the rules.

Tell us what you envisage.

Well, first of all, just to correct one thing there, I haven't said that I would like to see tax.

This is not a tax policy.

a tax issue.

What I'd like to see, what we need to do first of all is we need to make sure that e-scooters are regulated in the sense that we know who wants them, we know who buys them, we know who's responsible for them and I think it's also very important to say to listeners that if somebody is under 16 years of age they're breaking the law to be up on an e-scooter at the moment I would like to say to parents, talk to your children.

Their friend may have one that may go up on it.

We have heard from the CHI this week of the number of children who are in life support in the hospital.

So what would change with registration?

So, sorry, this alternative site, is this just temporary while this issue is being sorted? Are we looking at, do we need additional test centres in place?

Oh yeah, we do.

We should have had an additional test centre in Dublin.

The RSA were formulating a lease with a landlord And that failed and didn't happen.

So now they're on the lookout for another one.

We have opened a new test centre in Drogheda, which opened on the 5th of May.

And we opened an additional test centre in December of last year in Mitchelstown.

What are you going to do about that?

Is there any chance you might just try moving your phone slightly because you're slightly inaudible?

Yeah.

Can you hear me now? Yes, much better.

Please go on.

Yeah, sorry.

What I would say to you is that Ringaskilly and the oil refinery we have in this country is a vital cog in energy security.

We had a meeting with Nora on our energy supply and our energy security the week before these protests happened.

is that largely that was government's fault, that the response, particularly from the Minister of Justice, saying that he was going to send in the army, that just inflamed things, that the lack of government engagement caused people to dig in more, and that the package that you've now come out with is small.

Are you saying currently the Gardaí are returning the 400 scramblers they've taken off people?

At the moment, the legislation is lax in relation to what happens with them.

People can apply to the courts to get them back after an incident and a court case is finished.

They can apply and pay a fine and get them back.

How many have been returned? At the moment, I don't have figures on that.

All I know is that 400 and something were confiscated.

And my belief is that we need to make sure that we have finality with this so that scramblers are taken off our roads.

And road deaths went