So it's reasonable to think that they would do the same thing for PAM4-based data center optics if they were to bring something like this in.

But what's interesting is that with Marvell, they have the coherent DSPs and they've done very, very well, especially 400 gig.

The idea was that they would sell them to anybody, but they would also build their own.

And that's been relatively successful.

There's a lot of people out there using them.

But if you look in terms of volume, it's very hard to compete against somebody who's supplying you and competing against you.

And that's what some of Marvell's customers have sort of complained under the covers about, that it's hard to compete against Marvell when they're building the same thing that you're building.

Just so that I have that clear, is that coming from the DSPs that Marvell is doing? And on the other side, who is the competitor that you are referring to and how does the dynamic work really?