By sometimes paying up, I guess.

Every single time we paid up.

I would get a phone call and normally it was done through insurance policies.

So a company who are gonna operate in Africa, Middle East, Philippines, Latin America, the usual places that you'd expect these kidnappings to take place, would take out special risk insurance.

And so just like on your car insurance, if you wanna make a claim, you phone a number, gets routed through a call center essentially, and then it works its way to people like myself.

And then the difference in the police was you had a whole team to support you.

This time it was off you go, Scott.

It's never included a mock execution before.