And so how did you come across Scott Gibson? How did you two meet? Tell us about that story and maybe I'll hand over to Scott at this

point.

35 years ago.

Oh, wow.

This is not a recent meeting.

No.

No, we've, funnily enough, bumped into each other several times over our careers and life.

story to be telling to even 18 year old chefs that are coming into the industry to change like a paradigm shift in how they think about how to use produce in their venues and I'm so relieved that there is a strategy in play and in place to do that important work so how is that I guess transpiring in a tactical way how what kind of activities are you doing that that you're seeing um Yeah, that message getting across through.

What, what's been the kind of story then over the past 12 months? We're, we're in, well, we're in May now, aren't we? So how would you sort of summarize it?

Right now, it's still largely more of the same.

I saw a report yesterday, I think in your publication, saying that the market had cooled a lot and, uh, in the first quarter compared to the previous year and early years.

It certainly had cooled a lot compared to the previous year.

The first two months of the year were, were, were down quite a lot at 20%, but then it was on over such a s- huge hike last year over what was previously a record year.

Um, it hasn't actually cooled, uh, much at all.

It-- this year, 2026, ex- um, the, you know, the first two months were down.

And, and again, this is something that you've written about, but you know, y- you, you do see, you know, ultimately the, the law firm model, as you say, is quite sort of fragile in that respect because what it only takes, um, you b- it's a surprisingly sort of small proportion of partners to, to leave and then the thing is, uh, very much at risk of just falling over.