And then how did it come to us nodding on them? How did we get this nodding on from introspection? What made you think that actually, you know what, I want to grab a camera and I want to start making videos and speaking to our people about what you just found out yourself?

Yeah, it's all very sort of organic.

I was, like I said, I was involved with the Sikh societies.

Every now and then you have to stand up and say something and talk about Sikhi.

And then we were involved with Sikhi camps quite a lot in my early 20s.

Myself and a group of Sangat from West London and East London were quite heavily involved in Sikhi camps.

And again, if a speaker didn't turn up, you might be told, all right, you know, that speaker's coming half an hour late, but everyone's sitting in their seats, so just you say something.

But where do you kind of sit with that in terms of Sikh history and then there's Gurbani? Even though I'm not trying to say they're two separate things, but we are looking at it through that lens as well.

What is it?

What does it look like he's answering? And sometimes it's in Guru Nanak would be describing lots of things.

And in the end, there's like the mic drop line.

And then you're like, oh, that's possibly the question that he's answering.

So that's the approach that I took.

In other words, in other verses, there are just repeating themes again and again.

So Hukam being one of those verses, which is... going again and again, starting with the word hukam, hukam, hukam.

argue they have a more valid criticism because of the dualistic nature or the like the Judeo-Christian nature that is used.

So can you explain in s- you know, a case of, like, a war, in, in the macro or even in the micro, where someone's trying to attack me or attack my family? Do I see the God in them and say, "Okay, I know that you've forgotten this oneness, but I'll permit this," or do I stand up and fight back and defend myself?

So as the philosophy presents itself as being this one of oneness around serving everyone, seeing everyone as part of one thing, we also have to look at the historical context that you're living at a time where there was no police.

You can't dial 911.

There's no one that you can call when somebody's coming and tearing your house down.

So this community of spiritual practitioners within, within the Sikh tradition realized that it's not good enough to just be s- pacifist, that sometimes the situation presents itself in such a way and you realize no one's coming to help.

Time now requires us-- The, the moment the situation presents itself in such a way, that requires us to stand up and fight.

Not because you're my enemy, because the right thing for me to do, the truthful, the best way to live, is for me to protect the people who, who deserve protecting.

Now, when it comes to dissolving the ego, this is very, I think it's easier said than done, but what ways could I start to try to dissolve that? Because it's something that's so ingrained in me, the idea of even beginning to get rid of that, it feels impossible.