Mm

... on a community level because what ends up happening is that there's a lot of shame that gets carried by the children as well as, as the parents.

And this actually, according to research, is one of the things where there is a little bit of a gender split- Divorce is difficult for everyone, regardless of, you know, who initiated it, if there's, like, a clear initiator.

There's a grieving that will happen for, for both people that are in that relationship, irrespective of the circumstances.

But what we see in research time and time again is that the social cost is really borne by, by women.

Um, and what that means is, you know, people that they would've expected to be in their corner suddenly disappear, and my colleague Dina and I were saying it's almost like people think divorce is contagious, and they don't wanna catch it from you.

Um, and then someone in a really vulnerable period of time finds themselves really isolated.

Um, so I wanted to ask about kind of what does letting your guard down safely look like? How can you be vulnerable, um, when you, when you are dating, either as a divorcee or, as Simon's saying there, someone who's, who's never been married?

Things

can coexist.

And you were speaking before about parents that maybe were together for 10 years before they had children and everything was fine.

And then all of a sudden children come into the mix and things are different.

And I think it's challenging because...

You know, who we are definitely changes when we become parents, but also who we are changes as we get older and have life experiences, right? So what's important and what really helps is when you have an awareness of how you're changing, how your partner is changing, when it's sort of in the same direction, when there's like an openness in communication, some grace that's being given to ourselves and to one another.

But I think that in terms of preparing for parenthood and also different phases of parenthood, it's really important for parents to come together and have talks about some quote unquote hot topics.

And it's so hard when it's so emotive.