Mm.

And she ...

My mom was in and out of hospital.

I have to tell this story 'cause it's, like, sums her up as a person.

She worked my- Abbi works in childcare.

Mm.

And, uh, my mom hadn't wanted to see anybody at all.

Mm

What's the, the reason you brought this story, I guess is, is because, uh, why? [laughs]

Well, well, a, a, a dozen different reason.

Imme- immediately my first thought was just how fucking annoying it'd be to be called a stout man if you didn't, if you didn't want to be called a stout man, and how annoying it is to be, to be categorised.

It's the word stout that does feel like it sticks out.

Not just a man, but this is a l- little stubby one.

[laughs]

It doesn't make...

Uh, if somebody says, "I don't...

So you were like a kind of dirty secret, albeit that that's how it was positioned.

Yeah, and she was able to have these public relationships and then they would end and then she'd be with me for a while.

And I truly believe that the reason that I... was allowing myself to be treated that way.

Because, you know, as much as you can paint a picture of this horrible person, my main thing is that I'm just like, you know, she was a teenager and she was probably confused and all over the place and you can't really hold anybody accountable for things that they do at the age of 16 unless they're heinous crimes.

But I allowed her to do that I was very very willing to and it was heartbreak every time she broke up with me I was devastated and I truly believe that well I think I remember feeling like she was the only other queer person I knew and I did not know whether I would meet another woman who would be attracted to me and interested in me.

And then eventually we broke up and just as we were starting sixth form and I met someone else who was attracted to me and we didn't date for very long, but I think there was this such as like my, then my connection to her was so like, oh, my God, you're the other one.

You're the other person that exists.

yeah yeah which will put a link to and is that because that's also about like experiences around gender right that we still live between this stage in the 21st century these bizarre things still happen and these strange experiences some of which are quite depressing a lot of which are funny I

Yeah.

And be like, this, this is kind of what I'm going through.

So very sort of entry level explanation as to what it is to be like queer or non-binary or not necessarily identify with the gender that people have been telling you you're supposed to be.

Um, so it was, it was very lighthearted and like fun and just very personal about my experience.

Um, I'm trying to write a second series of it now.

And let me tell you, in the two years since we recorded that one, the conversation has really kicked off.

LAUGHTER People are more angry about it now, so I think the second series is going to have to be slightly more serious.

but i think as you say in the in the show which i was sort of surprised because you grew up in the 1990s in the early 2000s and so you would kind of hope this wasn't true but you were but obviously it was true that there were the the on the media there wasn't anyone you could really identify with as a as a kid that felt like you on tv