of

wild vines, so Vitis sylvestris, the wild wine vine that originated in Asia, just in the way that, you know, we now have adorable Labradors and Cock Spaniels and puppies.

Are you into dogs? I'm so into dogs.

Yeah.

But, you know, basically every dog on the planet right now originated from wolves.

Okay.

And humans, when they're kind of living and starting to form communities and farming communities, they started taming wild things.

Yeah.

I mean, how did the idea come about and how did it evolve?

Okay.

So it came about because I was really encouraged and supported to do it by a chap called Leo Austin.

And Leo is an Englishman.

um and actually um has a background in politics um and that reminds me i must introduce him to abby um anyway and he um got talking to me because he was um launching some um a new wine brand so he was introduced to me by um um our fellow mw um alan griffith he was working with alan and neil at amphora the design consultancy his surname suddenly gone out of my head anyway we had this meeting and he had this concept they had this concept for a wine brand um and i basically spent the whole meeting talking myself out of the job because i said this concept that you have isn't going to work and Because the category for old vine wine, it should be strong.

If you look at the writing that Jancis Robinson had done, if you look at the work of Rosa Kruger, which I remember you first told me about five years earlier.

Yeah.

I mean, in 30 years in the wine industry, is it getting harder? I mean, do you find yourself thinking, oh, God, you know, anti-alcohol lobby, low-alcohol wines, all that stuff, taxation?

Yeah.

When people just whinge.

Um, I mean, I understand things are tough and okay, you might not have the, um, you know, the, the funds to exhibit and so on.

But look at what Hannah's done.

Look at the, you know, the pressure on our calendars to come and go to tastings, and this is actually such a useful fair and you make it what it is, you know? Um, so many interesting and delicious and inspiring wines here, and the sessions have been amazing.

Um, and um, and I just, I don't understand why some people in the industry almost are, like, determined just to be-

How, how long have we got?

We, we said this would be five minutes.