[laughs]

I mean, it's just, it's, that's better than a ticket.

Um, yeah, it's interesting that, um, the New Test- the Old and New Testaments don't describe in graphic detail the nature of the intermediate state, but they do say repeatedly about the, the reality of it, the fact of it.

So, um, you know, the passage that you're referring to, the Mount of Transfiguration, that is a passage that leads me to conclude that there may be some form of intermediate physical body between death and the final resurrection.

I don't know what that would con- consist of, but it seems as if that is a very real possibility.

And of course, we have in 2 Corinthians 5, where Paul's talking about the intermediate state, and he says, "If we die," that is if this earthly tent is, uh, is taken down, "we have a building made from God," or, "made by God." And some think that refers to some sort of intermediate body.

So it's definitely not the final resurrection body, 'cause we're told repeatedly, 1 Thessalonians 4, 1 Corinthians 15, um, that w- we won't receive our resurrected, glorified body till Christ returns.

Uh, that we can't leave hanging, so please.

Yeah, just because it's part of the wider conversation, even though I'm more particularly interested today in discussing annihilationism and its modern cognate, conditional immortality.

Yeah, it should be pointed out that of all the annihilationists that I have read, I don't know any who affirm universalism.

So maybe let me just start with the definition of annihilationism.

The word itself is pretty explicit.

Annihilationists believe that every individual will be judged according to the principles of divine holiness and justice.

And when that is complete, that God will, for lack of a better term, obliterate, annihilate, the person will simply cease to be altogether.

They will no longer exist in any form, whether physical or spiritual.

I think that's a fair representation, if not an exhaustive one.

Sam, how vital is ridding ourselves of any idols to be freed from a satanic influence, or am I reading too much into it here?

No, you're not reading too much into it.

In fact, um, the whole story takes me back to 1 Corinthians chapter 10, where Paul says, "Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry." Um, and then he talks about, uh, how the, some Corinthians were seeking to visit the temples where, uh, food was sacrificed to Satan and to demons, and then they'd get up and go to the church and sit around the Lord's table.

And he says, "If you expose yourself, uh, to the influence of the enemy at those sacrificial s- dinners," he, he said, "you're exposing yourself to the influence of the devil." And he says, "You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons.

You can't partake of the cu- table of the Lord and the table of demons." He said, "Don't commune with demons in your act of idolatry." And of course, we could extend that.

It's not just an issue...

Of course, in our day it's different.

This is why, and I'm not trying to scare people straight here with God, but the cost attached to kinda dancing or limping between the gods of this age and the one true living God, it's costly, Sam.

But number one, Sam, isn't it great that she's got her sleeves rolled up and she's in the fight here, my man?

Abs- absolutely.

Um, I don't know if you're aware of Luke 10:17-22.

If you're not, you need to sit, sit down and read it.

Actually, it's 17 to 20.

You remember when the 72 were sent out by Jesus.

These were ordinary disciples.

Thank you, anonymous.

What is it? And can I substantiate it through scripture? So what is it?

Sure.

By the way, I think there are over 150 10 Things articles on my website.

I covered almost every biblical and theological category that I could.

But this one concerns what is known as the intermediate state.

Now, the word intermediate does not appear in the Bible.

So people ask, well, why do you use it? Well, we use it because when we die, we do not enter into the final consummate expression of our life with God.

I got it.

september 27th john chapter 17.

I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known that the love with which you have loved me may be in them and I in them.

Jesus prays for us.

Sam Storms As parents of two grown daughters, my wife and I often reflect on the years of their infancy and childhood and wonder how they survived as well as they did.

Small children rarely realize the dangers and obstacles that lurk in their world.

Our prayer as parents is that as they mature both physically and emotionally, they will grow to recognize the threats all around them.

The same is true in the spiritual life as well.

New Christians, mere infants in Christ, rarely sense the reality of the spiritual conflict in which they've been placed.

And

And all his acquaintances and the woman who had followed him from Galilee stood at a distance, watching these things.

The Mystery of the Cross, Sam Storms.

Luke's account of the crucifixion of Jesus threatens to overwhelm the reader, as the details of his abuse at the hands of his executioners rush upon us like a relentless flood.

It is painful enough to envision our Lord as the object of scorn, ridicule, and mockery.

That the sinless, spotless Lamb of God should then be subjected to the vile, taunting, and torturous mistreatment of such men is more than we can fathom.

What can we say when the Lord of glory is nailed to a cross? We say this.

We know that at the cross God was rightfully angry toward us, yet we also know that he was loving us, so much so that he gave his only begotten Son.

How about that? Is Jesus preaching a my way or the highway? Is that just sloppily stated but inherently true?

Well, it is frustrating to hear somebody preach that way, if you can call it preaching, because there's so many people out there deceived by it.

And the simple fact of the matter is we need to let Jesus decide what is necessary for salvation.

And simply citing the example of the rich young ruler or another passage that talks about, or the good Samaritan, in those passages he's basically challenging the rich young ruler.

He said, let me just ask you a few questions, because the rich young ruler thought that that he had basically done enough good works to achieve salvation, and Jesus is speaking in such a way to expose the fallacy of that way of thinking.

So again, the carnal good Samaritan, yes, we should all be good Samaritans.

We should also help those in need, but that's the fruit of salvation.

Ron Hubbard not say that? Why does Buddha not say that? Why does Allah not say that? Why does Confucius not say that?

How about that? Is Jesus preaching a my way or the highway? Is that just sloppily stated but inherently true?

Well, it is frustrating to hear somebody preach that way, if you can call it preaching, because there's so many people out there deceived by it.

And the simple fact of the matter is we need to let Jesus decide what is necessary for salvation.

And simply citing the example of the rich young ruler or another passage that talks about, or the good Samaritan, in those passages he's basically challenging the rich young ruler.

He said, let me just ask you a few questions, because the rich young ruler thought that that he had basically done enough good works to achieve salvation, and Jesus is speaking in such a way to expose the fallacy of that way of thinking.

So again, the carnal good Samaritan, yes, we should all be good Samaritans.

We should also help those in need, but that's the fruit of salvation.

Ron Hubbard not say that? Why does Buddha not say that? Why does Allah not say that? Why does Confucius not say that?

How, how does one possibly take 14:6 out of context, Sam? I don't understand that.

[laughs] Well, you can't.

In fact, the context is the entire Gospel of John- Uh, it's, uh, you know, like I h- said just before the break, [clears throat] those who wanna dismiss John 14:6 might s- concede that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus was necessary for salvation to be a possibility for anyone, but conscious faith in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus is not necessary.

However you respond religiously or spiritually, um, y- Jesus has made it possible for you to be reconciled to God.

But you don't have to actually believe in him.

But we have to think about the fact that Jesus said this j- probably not long after he has said things like, um, in, in John chapter 6, "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." And then he says, uh, "This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." And then just a few verses later, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day." And again, truly I ...

Mm-hmm.

And as you've spent time with God these days, just enjoying God, what has he been impressing upon your heart? Is there a theme, a story, a verse, a virtue? What's he imprinting and impressing upon your heart?

Yeah, I'd be happy to answer that question.

And the answer comes immediately to mind.

I have watched and obviously been deeply disturbed, as I think almost all Christians have, by so many of these horrible natural disasters that have occurred, whether they be earthquakes or tsunamis or tornadoes or wildfires.

And Not only that, but just also the massive amount of suffering.

I just think about what happened on October 7th in Gaza.

And so many instances we read about every day on the internet and in the news about horrific murders and kidnappings.

Anything you want to speak to that, dear listener, Sam?

What does that passage tell us?

Yeah, well, it tells us about the heart of the Father and the heart of the Son.

In fact, that's a point I want to make real clear to our listeners.

The issue of eternal security isn't so much about our persevering in faith.

It's about God preserving us in faith.

The only reason I or you persevere, in other words, we endure and we do not abandon Christ is is because God is committed to preserving and not abandoning us, and he upholds us.

You know, that's why Paul says in Philippians 1.6, I'm confident of this one thing, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Okay, so Sam, what did Jesus say about our eternal security?

Mm-hmm.

But let me get back to my point here.

I'm try- I'm talking about what the, the ultimate underlying reason is why people reject hell.

Now, as I am gonna say, the, uh, the people who do, and the evangelicals who do, are gonna push back on this, and we can address it.

But here's what Stott said.

Quote, "I find the concept of eternal conscious punishment in hell intolerable, and do not understand how people can live it, live with it without either cauterizing their feelings or cracking under the strain." So there he's saying, people reject it because it's intolerable.

My emotional, my emotions cannot tolerate it.

Mm.

I love your thoughts.

Well, certainly.

And that last point you were making is one that people don't want to hear.

The only thing that you and I and everyone else deserves is hell.

We deserve eternal condemnation.

And that's the one thing that we as Christians will never have.

That's just, if that doesn't stir your soul to raise your voice and every part of your being physically, emotionally, and spiritually to extol God, I don't know what will.

What do you want to say about that?