What did working inside a government teach you about how this is actually made so that, you know, that most people like me don't get to appreciate like how reveal a little bit of the sausage making, like, obviously there's certain things you can't say, but what are some things that we don't appreciate?

Well, I think there's the stuff that everyone kind of assumes, which is highly bureaucratic.

Oftentimes, there's too many cooks in the kitchen.

And, you know...

Basically, the saying is you don't want to really know how the sausage is made, right? Because it's not a pleasant process.

But what I will say is that when you have the right stakeholders and the right engagement, that's where the magic happens.

And I've noticed in my career, not just in federal government, but even in my work as a commissioner, there's a direct correlation between how long or thoughtful something is and how long it lasts versus how quick it is and how fast it falls apart.

How do you translate those values into measurable outcomes?