And so that became the idea and the basis for the book.

For me at the time, like any politician uttering the word climate was still in this framework of, oh, the only tool we have is efficiency.

The only thing we can do is turn our thermostats down a little bit.

When instead we had this whole new set of tools that were transformation.

It was not just using less gas, but actually completely changing the fuel source they ran on.

And that difference is so big and no one was really talking about what it implied.

You kind of touched on it, but what are some of the other key ideas from the book? I think one of the key, key arguments is that when you make the transition to electric, you actually need far less energy to run the economy, that there is an inherent efficiency in switching to electric.

Copper?

So out of all those things you saw then, why specifically did you start with Stokes? Because I'm assuming you probably kicked around other ideas too?

Yeah, absolutely.

So, you know, OK, so I gave you the argument why we need batteries out at the edge of the grid.

Well, there's home batteries today.

What's wrong with that? If you look at how they're installed, they tend to be installed under some pretty bloated soft costs, mostly because they're accompanying a residential solar installation.

And the permitting, inspection, interconnection, custom electrical and sales costs of those installs drive the install costs way up.

so if you look at a battery batteries are getting close to 100 bucks a kilowatt hour depending on the chemistry in the pack um installing you know the best home batteries are like 1200 1500 bucks a kilowatt hour so there's this 10 15 x spread between those two costs and that's all that extra stuff that i'm naming So if we instead put batteries into an appliance that already have really efficient sales and distribution channels, it's already easy for you to get it into your home and the battery comes along with it.

Yeah,

By the way, what a, what a fun, uh, name as well.

Yeah.

So our mission at Copper is to help give people more control over their energy, give people better access to clean energy.

And the best way to do thatIs to, um, essentially get more batteries out in the world.

And our underlying thesis is the best way to do that is to put batteries inside appliances that people are already used to buying.

There's existing sales and distribution channels for them, and you can make them perform way better if they can manage their own power, if they have a battery inside.

And so Copper's mission is to, is to do that.

Some listeners may get that intuitively, many, many won't.