Sam, what do you got?

I'll go with Walbert Urania.

And I think, you know, one of the reasons for this, I mean, Urania, when he started the season, I didn't think he should have even been in the big leagues.

And the reason for that was, I mean, his numbers in minor leagues weren't particularly, like, good.

I mean, this is a guy that has essentially exploded on the scene in the span of one big league season.

I think you watch him pitch and you feel like this guy, everything he's doing is real and sustainable.

He's done it for an entire year at this point.

Sam, we'll let you start on this one.

Yeah

... uh, the...

I look back to the 2024 Angels when they were, you know, just the, one of the more awful, you know, stretches that I can remember towards the end of the season.

They, they got swept in Chicago by that White Sox team that ended up losing 121 games.

And this se- this weekend kinda felt similar in the sense of, like, you know, just, like, a team that just really would find a way to lose.

Um, you know, and, uh, listen, does it really matter? No, not necessarily, but I think you wanna get to a point as an organization where, you know, when you are rebuilding, you want these games that don't feel like they actually matter.

You still wanna be in them.

Well, Sam, can you elaborate a little on how this story came about and what some of these indications you and Ken were receiving that, uh, Kurt could actually return as manager?

Yeah, I

mean, the Rangers, like, you know, I mean, some of their horses are, like, older and kind of not really lasting.

So, and, you know, Mackenzie Orr isn't really panned out at all.

Yeah.

I wouldn't say at all, but, I mean, he's not having the year that I think they hoped for in the traded form.

So, yeah, I mean, I look at the Angels rotation.

I mean, one thing you mentioned, Kikuchi, him finishing really strong I think is important because, you know, not necessarily for a 2027 rotation, but I think he could be very valuable in the trade market.

What are some of these infrastructure, foundational, culture-like things, shifts that you think will be remedied or either changed immediately under the ownership?

Artie Moreno sold the team.

Really good question.

That's a good question.

I don't, I don't fully understand it either.

I mean, the timing is, is a little strange to me in general.

Like, they had just made a lot of different transition-type moves, right? They had, uh, you know, John Carpino had retired as the president, Molly Jolley taking over, and, and, you know, she had fired Perry Minasian with John Mozeliak taking over and, and, you know, the front office.

Uh, you know, you had Curt Suzuki on.

So how do you think things change for Trout and company?

And then when the lockout's over and there's a new owner for the Angels, does this thing emerge? Like, is anybody we know with the Angels still there other than Gubaza? I mean, what's going to happen?

I mean, I don't know.

I think it'll be interesting to see how they, you know, when you talk about, like, personnel, I mean, I think there are several kind of, like, iterations of this question, because I think, like, what is a short-term plan? I mean, you know, they just made big changes by bringing, you know, I mean, Molly Jolly's been with the team forever, but, you know, she got elevated to team president in March, or I guess in April.

and, you know, has kind of started an acting division there, which, you know, I'm starting to wonder, well, was she kind of viewed more as a transitional figure to begin with? I don't really know, and I think that's something that we're going to keep reporting on and learning more about as this whole story plays out.

But, yeah, what does this mean for, you know, John Mozelek, who just got brought on as an interim GM, who may have wanted to kind of stay here long-term and build out the, you know, the team maybe in his image, and he was starting to do that.

Listen, I don't know, does he get the green light to continue doing that? Does Stan Kroenke come in and say, I want to bring my own top baseball executive in? I think those are very fair questions.

At manager, I look at Kurt Suzuki, I mean, I would have thought zero chance he's brought back after this year, and I still think it's very unlikely, but how are the Angels going to hire a new manager when new ownership's coming in and assume they want to have their stamp of approval on whoever that manager is? And so you're kind of You're navigating a lot of different moving parts here.

Just the scouting department, is that something that will be supported? Was that because they didn't have enough money, or was it just bad picks?

I

mean, you know.

Yeah.

Scott, like I just want to say, you know, your story is just – I think people don't really always understand addiction.

You know it exists.

I think you can internalize that it's out there, that people experience it.

But I think you coming out and sharing your story is – it's unbelievably important and the way you've done it just so transparently, even, even like the really, really ugly parts of it.

Yeah, I think, Sam, I think it was just I had mentioned something at the reunion, right?

Publicly he hasn't said, "Hey, I'm never going to opt out," but, you know, from what you gathered, he's so happy that really regardless of what happens on the ownership side, Shohei Ohtani feels like this is his spot through 2033, right?

Yeah, and I mean, I mean, uh, there's a good column by Dylan Hernandez in the California Post about how, like, we don't re- like, the, you know, the, the Dodgers could say this is completely separate, this is irrelevant, but, you know, there were similar things said, I guess, uh, you know, back in two th- back before the McCourt sale, right? Uh, you know, all the, all the drama with his divorce.

That that was, you know, that he intended to own the team for years and years, and that didn't pan out, and I think, you know, he com- uh, Dylan compared that to what Stan Kasten said Wednesday, um, which is that this is completely irrelevant to the Dodgers.

So I think we don't know, right? Like, what we do know is that there is an investigation, and, um, beyond that, speculation would be probably, you know, unwise.

But that's...

When there is that investigation, when we know that publicly, I think you have to, you have to understand that there's uncertainty.

And yeah, Shohei's happy with the Dodgers.

But is there a chance, again, that he had to sell the Lakers because he had to make up assets, right? Is there a chance, and I know this is more of the Shohei side of it, but is there actually a chance he's gonna have to turn around and possibly sell his sha- his share at least in the Dodgers?

A player with – I was actually kind of surprised, I believe it was your comment, Sam, on Joe, that the sprint speed cratered and some of the defensive tools may have rated even worse than I thought this year, the arm strength.

I mean, listen, you just go on like Baseball Savant, his arm strength is like in the bottom 2% of – big leaguers I believe in his sprints I mean he doesn't steal bases anymore right like that was a that was a part of his game that I always felt like was going to be really strong if he figured out kind of the instincts element of it it always felt like his you know instincts for stolen bases were kind of the issue less so the speed but if you look now I mean his speed his sprint speed is still like above slightly above average but it's it's declined quite a bit from where it was um and he doesn't really attempt them anymore and you know I don't think he's considered you know considered a supremely fast player necessarily.

At least the way that he maybe was.

To me, Adele is...

As of right now, I mean, he's basically a replacement-level player.

I mean, that's what the numbers say.

You know, his on-base is around 280, I think.

From what you heard today, Sam, do you think Mo is here to stay?

Why the discrepancy?

Um, well, one, I don't, I think Mosaic, like he saw me after the game and I think he said D plus, like he thought I gave him that grade.

So I don't know.

Uh, anyway, um, my thinking on this is like one, I actually think the angels like getting off of a hobby's contract is probably ultimately like part of this.

Um, I don't really think that they, that Mosaic like reviewed him as part of their future at all.

I mean, he basically said he was pretty critical right there.

I mean, if you listen to it, he's basically said he didn't play well on either side of the ball.

Was it a gradual regression? Did it happen overnight? What do you think?

[chuckles]

Yeah, I mean, this...

So basically, to recap the story just a little bit, right? There's, the Angels, uh, hired a m- uh, a scout named, uh, Justin Boomer, he goes by Boomer Prinstein, um, in December of last year.

It was a position that they added.

They only had five pro scouts at, on their media guide from 2025.

They had six this year.

They added Prinstein, they added The Baseball Spy, and that's what he goes by on his Twitter account.

Mm

I don't know what's going to happen these last two-plus months of the season, but is this at least the kind of win that can catapult them toward a more respectable finish to this season? That was as improbable as it gets.

No.

I mean, whatever, right? I mean, you're kind of at the point of the season where it's like, okay.

I mean, the Cardinals had a full-on – Riley O'Brien had a full-on – implosion there and the all-star closer by the way yeah yeah who also i believe had a pretty significant hit by pitch in that all-star game uh junior caminero so um yeah you know just you sit there take your take your hit by pitches and you get the win i mean i wouldn't i just i i'm not i think we're at the point in the year where it's like you know it's like you've got of course you rather win the game than lose i think You know, you're you're basically trying to avoid 100 losses.

So these are the margin wins and wins and losses that maybe will determine that.

But ultimately, what's the difference? I mean, it's a win or a loss.

And, you know, I think it's just another season in which the, you know, any playoff hopes or anything is kind of evaporated by the time you get to late July.

So some general reaction, what we heard from Mo last night, Sam.

Other than that, is it a flaw or is it bringing them up too early? What do you see from the insight that you have? I think it's

a combination of those things.

I mean, ultimately like they've, they have rushing guys up.

I think it's, it's kind of like been attached to the angels in a way that almost kind of like loses sight of what it actually is.

And the real problem that I see is like, it's not even that you rush guys up.

It's, it's like, is Samuel to Gary really benefiting from coming up and down all the time? Like, you know, is, is, is, you know, Kate and Dana who got put on this 40 man roster, like at the end of the 24 season, when he was 20 years old, like now he's on the 40 man roster.

So now when the angels need somebody who to fill like a long reliever role, like you, you know, you have to consider him and he's been used in that capacity and it's not, it's not good for him.

So with that being said, from the conversations you've had with writers of all kinds, from Ken Rosenthal down, how does the Angels' transparency compare to other organizations in the league?

Is there a certain type of person that you think could be hired there that would get autonomy to make baseball decisions?

I don't know.

I mean, I thought it was in- even if you go back to when they hired Perry, um, you know, there were other more qualified candidates at that time.

And, and I ...

You know, I think when you kind of look back at it in hindsight, it's easy to think, "Well, maybe you get someone you can control a little bit, who kind of isn't gonna, you know, s- color outside the lines of the way he pa- the way Artie thinks." Um, now that being said, I think you hired someone here who is in the contractual situation and in the career and life situation where he kind of will do this regardless, right? Like, I don't ...

I think if he ...

I think if Mozeliak finds that he's not having the author- the authority or autonomy to, you know, create an operation here that he thinks will work, then what's the point in doing it for? I don't, I don't see why he would have any motivation to continue it.

Since Perry's been gone, if John can convince him, convince Artie, is it Reid Detmers? Is that their biggest piece, or is it Jose Soriano? Because now we start looking at their different pieces and say, okay, these are, these are viable big pieces that if he, if Artie can be convinced, it could really help the Angels step forward instead of step back and keeping them.

Yeah

... for a while, and is...

You know, you, you, you...

When people talk about her, they talk about her really highly, and I don't know if that's...

You know, sometimes I think you're getting, I'm getting sold a little bit on, um, just the, the next thing with the Angels because, you know, you talk about the John Carpino era, who, who retired, you know, back in March, and you talk about all these things that have failed.

And I think, you know, the Angels are always trying to sell you on, "Okay.

Well, the next thing's gonna be better," and, and Molly Jolly is maybe right now the next thing.

So, like, in your understanding around the industry, what is, like, the level of faith that Mozeliak was the right person for this job at this time?

Mm.

So I don't need to kind of defend my point there.

That kind of does it for me.

And, um, you know, I know everyone kind of says, "Oh, he had a tough break.

It was Ar- you know, Arte's this, that, and the other.

He's the guy that makes his life so hard." I think two things can be true.

That is true, right? But, uh, what's also true is the areas where I think Perry could have done well, he didn't.

With the hiring of a proven winner and established guy in John Mozelak, do you guys think this is any indication that Artie Moreno, the mercurial owner of the Angels, might actually take a step back and stop meddling in baseball decisions? What do you think, Sam?

[laughs]

... lockouts, that he thinks lockouts are effective tools for negotiating, and, and basically said that there would be one this year.

And I mean, there's, there's just no, there's nothing that is trending in a different direction.

I mean, every proposal is, is, you know, from both sides, I think are, are, are just kind of proving that this divide is so significant.

Well, the big question to me will be is wh- wh- who kind of, will this lead to missed games? I think it could, because there's, this is a, the, the issue at hand here, uh, you know, is ultimately so significant for the future of the game, and I think it's so significant both for the future of the game for players and for the wealth of the owners.

And so there's just not going to be a, a huge impetus to, to find a middle ground, I think.

I don't think either side is really looking at this like there's a middle ground, right now at least.

How was the catch-up with Andrelton Simmons?

Do you think his value has dropped a little, Sam?

think so i mean i think i think what you find uh is teams tend to be cocky right like they tend to look at the angels and say they're not figuring it out with this guy we can and that's like been the formula you've seen year after year so i i would imagine when you look at just the raw ability of jose soriano combined with the fact what he already kind of put on paper in that first six weeks of the season would probably maybe even make him more i don't know i mean unless i'm you know I'm not an expert exactly on how teams might evaluate the minute differences between a pitcher pitching really well at a certain moment compared to a guy who's struggled over the course of a couple weeks.

But I think that he might have more or equal value than Detmers.

The teams that I think will be maybe the most interested are the ones that would not be able to afford pitchers.

like this in free agency who would look at two and a half two plus years three playoff runs with an ace type pitcher and say okay like there's you know this is worth us giving something up in a significant way i mean look at like what like mason miller got last year i mean he the number number three overall prospect in baseball plus like three other prospects and i know he had one more year of control and he's you know maybe the best closer in baseball and there's some other dynamics of play there but you can get some of the best prospects in baseball for these guys i think i mean just given given the years of control, given the, the raw ability, given the, you know, what they've already put on paper.

I mean, I think that there's, there's a lot there in this.

If like, if you don't, if you, if you're into the angels front office and you're saying, sitting here saying like, we're going to do it with these guys, like then why aren't you, why are you 30 and 45? So that'd be my, that'd be my counter.

It sounds like you would agree with what Jeff is saying.

[clears throat]

I mean, to be...

I mean, that's...

It's like I said, I don't...

I think two things can be true, and that doesn't really matter who the manager of this team is.

Uh, it wasn't, wasn't a well-constructed roster.

I think that, you know, right now they're getting a lot out of guys like Wade Meckler, Donovan Walton, José Siri.

Can we, can we ding Curt's record because we all believe his, some of his bullpen moves have been a little questionable? But how much is, how much blame does he bear, uh, with some of that stuff?

So question for my panel today, uh, is this an inflection point for the fans, for the team, for the owner? What, what do you think, Sam?

Yeah, I think so because, I mean, listen, y- if you've gone to Angels games, I mean, I've... covering this team for six years and, and I think the reputation with Angels fans is always that they'll just kinda...

They're almost passive, right? That they'll show up.

It's like the Rockies last year where they would sell out the stadium and 119 loss season.

I, uh, and so I think this is, this is this fan base pushing back, and I think there are several factors.

I talked about it with Breezy out at the protest the other day.

Um, I think it's the Anaheim Ducks having the season that they had and proving that this fan base, which are the same people that go to games in both Anaheim and Los Angeles of Anaheim.

For anyone on this panel, how will, uh, will th- this have any impact on Arte Moreno?

Yeah

... pretty much anything if they feel like it's positive, they feel like it's going in the right direction.

I mean, these guys will glom onto, uh, uh, like a, a good start in low A if it, if it makes them feel positive about the future.

I mean, it's not that hard.

You just ki- you have to, you have to level with people, I think.

I mean, it's, it's, uh, to...

I think it's very simple.

Yeah.

I won't go there

... and as someone that doesn't like driving to, uh, to LA too often.

Um, yeah, no, I mean, I, listen, I'm not, I'm not around as much this year, but I will say that they're, af- after six years of, of this front office to kind of be running of this bullpen is, uh, you know, I think it's, it's really bad.

Uh, I mean, to be honest with you, like, the most of the guys in that pen, and it's not, not to, you know, crap on them or anything, but, uh, this is not a good bullpen, right? Like, this is a lot of guys who are reclamation projects, guys who are, maybe don't, don't have a ton of velocity, uh, guys who are in their mid to late 30s.

Um, it's, it's not a, it's just not a good enough bullpen.

And it, and, you know, you have, like- Joey Lucchesi trying to close a game and, and, you know, Drew Pomeranz coming in the day after he gives it up and does it immediately.

Uh, same thing, I mean, back-to-back games allowing, uh, game tying or game-winning homers against left-handed batters.

Is it because he went to the Astros and they're not doing very well? What, what's the deal with him and, and the Astros and having a hard time with the USA?

Sam, set this up.

Well, so this new automated ball strike challenge system requires, you know, I mean, basically like every hitter has their own strike zone.

And that strike zone is, you know, 53.5% of their height is the top of the zone and 27% of their height is the bottom of the zone.

And so in order for this to be able to work, every player needs to be measured very accurately.

Otherwise, your strike zone is going to be off in some capacity.

And what the computer is measuring as a strike and a ball won't be accurate.

And so every baseball player got measured accurately.

You referenced the lasers.

So yeah, what's the outlook and how do you think this center field return went down?

I think like for me with Mike, the biggest thing is his offense.

I mean, he couldn't, you know, I mean, we can, it's just, I kind of almost roll my eyes with the defensive stuff.

Like, yeah, right.

Field center.

It's just, I think whatever, right.

Like he, he was all, we spent all last spring kind of talking about how he's done.

So talk to us about those two guys and kind of what they were expecting or hoping for from each of them.

I mean, it's not wrong, but it's maybe not top of mind.

mind.Uh, I guess winning the pennant, but it-- but I think every Phillies fan would probably tell me that that's too short.

And, and I hate it.

I mean, it's just not fair for it to be World Series or bust.

I hate that.

But, but it just feels like, you know, Wheeler's got this year and next year, and we don't know if there's gonna be any baseball next year.

It, it, it just feels like they have to go far.

What did you see? What was the atmosphere like? What were your observations?

if the Skaggs family is entitled to money, it wouldn't be as much money.

Yeah.

So that's-- I'll get into that first 'cause I think it's, uh, interesting.

They had, you know, an, uh, ex-Major League Baseball general manager as an, as a paid expert witness.

The Skaggs side had Jeff Fennell, who was a longtime, uh, union lawyer, uh, come in and, and argue on their behalf earlier in the trial.

This has been kind of the trial within the trial, 'cause I think it is the most tangible thing that either side could argue, is what would Tyler Skaggs have earned? It's, it's, you know, it's, it's a really dark arbitration case, essentially.

What would he have earned had he been-- had he finished his career, had he-- had this not all happened, essentially? 'Cause that's, you know, that's damages that the Skaggs side is trying to recoup, essentially.

It usually sounds like something that would be taken care of behind the scenes before it actually gets to court and makes it look like the group overseeing another group and really in cahoots with a group is battling within this case.