Well, first talk about what is actually happening inside us, but also how does someone know when their nervous system is reacting to an old wound versus when it's accurately telling them, okay, this person isn't safe for me? It's a valid

question.

I think the important thing to look at is what we had talked about earlier, right? When is the last time you remember feeling this? Does that feel familiar? And I'm big, I'm with you.

I think... that we have the pendulum has swung really severely in our industry because I think a lot of people are so focused on the thoughts, the thoughts, the thoughts, but then we don't remember that the body is also speaking very loudly and that we have to connect everything, right? We can't just be worried about what is your brain saying.

It's like, what's your body also saying? Now, when I started the book with 173 messages, and I think that was actually a conservative number.

That's the shameful part.

I know it was probably more.

So what kind of healing are we really looking for when it comes to these earlier life wounds and injuries and, you know, big T trauma, little D traumas and the things that are affecting our patterns in love where we're stuck in these toxic patterns? What do you recommend to people? what to seek out, what kind of healing to seek out.

That's what I'm going to do.

I think what your friend explained now, I could totally be wrong, but what it sounds like because we hurt relationships, we heal in relationships.

Now, what it sounds like is she had a corrective experience and the corrective experience is what can do so much.

Like for me, my father wound doesn't go away.

Like my father now disowning me and me going through that.

That's never going to go away.

I have a partner.

And I just in

Being in a dating cycle is different than being in a 10, 20, 30 year relationship and If someone has been in relationship with a few people or one person, they have no prior identity or life experience of who am I outside of this? Then you reenter the quote unquote dating world and you're like, me I don't even know who I am I don't know where to start I don't know what to do I didn't even know that I had these patterns and like does that not feel incredibly overwhelming where you're like I don't have the capacity for this I would just prefer to pick someone and move on

A hundred percent.

It's like the same thing is because your nervous system, your nervous system is going.

I think of it as like this.

You're about to hit a mountain.

You know, you want to get to the top to that beautiful view.

You know that the view is going to be worth it.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

And it's like, Maybe, but let's get curious because there's probably something going on there that comes from way back that helps to connect a lot of the dots of like, why am I like this?

The first thing I want to preface, especially if people that are listening are parents, mothers, fathers, whatever, right? Because I have had these conversations or I'll do a live event and I'll be talking about it and people will come up and go, I just texted my husband and told him we messed up our kids.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

The point of all of this work is never to blame or to add shame to our caregivers, to our parents, to anybody that was in our childhood.

Now, can we hold accountability? Absolutely, right? I think we can, you know, I will look at my parents, for instance.

I came from a big T trauma home, right, where there was a lot of abuse, whether it be physical or emotional or verbal.

There was a lot of walking out, choosing other people.

Of

Right

... for 21 years.

You guys met as kids." I met my partner at 32.

I had just lost my dog.

My business was in sh- I had just started this entire career.

I had no money.

I wasn't established in who I was.

And so what do you think about dating apps?

'Cause when you're listening, it's out.

When I was a baby, I used to throw up after every single meal, and everybody kept saying, like that was the biggest running joke, "Why does Sabrina throw up? Oh, it's so funny.

It's so funny." And then when I was writing the book, as I was realizing the messaging that I received at that time with the situation that was happening, and I asked my mom, "What happened right before? Like, why would I do that?" And she so innocently was like, [smacks lips] "Oh, your father was holding you, and he'd put you down.

And then him being the narcissist that he is, he wouldn't allow me to come back into the room.

So you'd cry, cry, cry, cry, cry, until you threw up, and then he would force me.

I'd have to go and clean you, and then leave you again." And she said, "So it became a re- re- a, a pattern." And that was the moment where I realized, like, there's nothing wrong with me.

This was literally wired in me from when I was a infant-

Literally.

I relate it really hard to some of them, but I wonder where do you place the girls and why into these different stereotypical daters?

It's funny.

I would say I was thinking about that.

Like, I would say Carrie probably learned somewhere along the way that she has to earn love, that who she is.

You know, she has this confidence, this air about her that she is.

You know, she has her fashion and her moments and she's a writer and she she's so articulate with her words.

But yet there's this insecurity because look what she allows.

So I would love to ask you, what do you think is a bullshit blueprint of the girls? roughly in the season and how do you think they can, you would advise them to work it out?

It's all the same.

The only difference I find is the like actual who texts who, because you're like, okay, well, and in heterosexual culture, it's very, the man does it.

I don't believe in any of that.

So to me, it's all nonsense.

But speaking even in my, for what I experienced, I used to date people.

You said jump.

I said on who, right? Like if you told me that this person, if you sleep with them, if you do something, they're going to like you.

But can you kind of speak to that, like how difficult it is for people to like access that part of themselves?

So set the scene of where you were at this beginning phase.

I was 24.

I realized in the first couple...

You know, when you're looking at your age and you're like, "I could do this." I was 24.

I was a you- I was a kid, right? I was a baby.

I lived in New York.

I was so unaware of, one, my actions having reactions, right? Like, I didn't really understand that dynamic.

How can someone discern whether they are noticing a red flag or their programming is coming up and they're applying it to that situation?

Mm-hmm.

And so it was a very unsafe environment to be authentically myself.

I couldn't just say what I wanted, because there was always a risk on the other side of what that meant and what was gonna happen to me.

And so I moved to New York when I was 19, started to find myself, started to grow into myself, dated all the wrong people, and it wasn't until I hit my rock bottom where I realized I consistently am waiting for other people to choose me, but I've never chosen myself.

And once I started to do that, no became my favorite word.

I started setting boundaries.

But it was really, honestly, where that came from was when I learned to grieve, and learned that by being like this, I was going to lose people.

You find that that's, you see that in the workplace as well?

Is that sort of something we need to do?

100%.

What makes a relationship healthy is that you know it can end at any time because you're two adults making a choice.

Because if one of the partners comes and says, "I'm no longer choosing this," it's a conversation.

You could talk about it.

You can accept it.

You're being discerning.

It seems like it's really difficult to stay true to yourself and to, um, work through difficult things because it's pretty easy now just to go to the next thing and distract ourselves and, you know, get an instant fix and, you know, live our life that way.

Mm-hmm.

So we are picking up on facial expressions, we're picking up on intonation, we're picking up on, how does Mom and Dad interact with each other? How do they interact with me? And I hear this all the time, "I had a perfect childhood." And I don't dispute that people can have an incredible relationship childhood, but the reason I say there's no such thing as perfect is because, one, we don't create...

All of this doesn't come from nowhere.

You didn't just all of a sudden wake up at 18 years old and you're riddled with anxiety and you can't sit still.

But what I hear when I hear that is usually, I think a lot of people are scared to take up that space to say, like, "Oh yeah, you know what? My dad was emotionally unavailable and he wasn't able to be there.

I knew he loved me, but at the time, at seven years old, you're not conscious and aware of how they can love you." As an adult, you could be like, "Oh, my dad was working, and did all this." And I'll give you an example.

I had a client once, and she had r- was crippling anxiety.

But that oftentimes that we feel this electricity or chemistry, right? But that can be misleading.

They could be very insecure and just not understand, you know, how to communicate their needs or their situation at the beginning of a relationship.

I wish more women spoke like that, right? I wish more women were like, "Hey, this doesn't feel right." But unfortunately, a lot of the times it's two hurt people, right? And so you have two hurt people that are feeling, especially now, right? I'm not gonna try to pretend as if, like, dating is so easy.

What, you guys are struggling? It's like we've all been there.

We know what it feels like to be in the trenches.

And I think for a lot of people, when someone comes on strong, it's the like, finally.

Finally, someone sees me and they value me.

I'll never forget, I talk about this guy, I call him the conventionally handsome guy 'cause he was very conventionally handsome.

We're talking about the same things." How can, like, how can somebody spot the difference between, like, that, like someone being genuinely excited, maybe a little insecure 'cause they've been hurt in the past, versus somebody who's, like, love bombing them in order to manipulate them? Because those things can feel very similar.

Mm-hmm

... and thought that's how she would get men to like her.

But what I can do is say, "I'm so sorry that that's what you felt you need to do, but now I'm here to let you know that you don't have to anymore." And I think that when we can hold that space, like, that's why I post one every single day on Insta because I, you know, there's always new people coming in and all of those variables.

But to me, I really, really want people to know that I am the version I am today because of what I went through, not in spite of.

Yeah.

"I've processed it, I've thought about it, and this is what I need from you moving forward." You could use I statements, you're clear about it, and you're able to articulate that to your partner.

But you can't do that unless you take a minute.

And for me, it used to take 20 minutes, then it became 10 minutes, it became five.

Sometimes it's a very

aloof parent, right? Oh, the little t's.

Little t trauma.

When I hear somebody say I had the perfect childhood, I instantly already know that they're kidding themselves.

Because it's not that I think your parents are bad.

I will never villainize anybody's parents.

What it's about is no one is perfect.

Well, I think

I mean, what's the simplest reason for why people keep on doing things they know make them unhappy?

Your nervous system and your brain are designed to keep you safe, not here to help you grow.

So none of us, our brains have no idea how old we are.

They don't understand that I'm an adult.

We have the two main parts of the brain that I think are the most fascinating.

You have your prefrontal cortex, which starts to really fully form in your late 20s.

That's why you can tell a high school student, don't drink and drive.

Right.

Okay.

My reliability was that the person I go to bed to is the one I'm gonna wake up to, that when I come to you for something, I can rely that you are going to be there for me, not just that you'll be there at 6:00.

And so we had a disconnect where he would go into his avoidant modes, where he would just get into his head.

And I'm sitting there being like, "Hey, hi, I'm here.

You know? Still, still here.

I'm not gonna just leave because you're having a moment unless you communicate with me." In the three and a half years that we've been together, the only reason I'm still with him, had he not done the work, and that it was never a force, there was never an ultimatum.

It was always me saying, "I'm leveling up, and if you wanna have this life that I'm trying to build, then you need to match me there.

Yeah, you, you would've dragged that out.

Right.

And so when I moved to New York and I was dating, and I'm sleeping around, I'm doing all the things, I just started to get further away from myself.

I was medicating myself.

I was numbing myself out.

I was doing anything I could to avoid dealing with the root issue, and it wasn't until I hit rock bottom.

I was with a man that was essentially my father in just a different form.

I was a shell of a human, and I'll never forget, it was about, about maybe a month before we finally broke up, and I was, I was going through some, some health things, and I was on the floor crying.

Okay

So what do you think about that gap between awareness and change?

I think it's like addicts, right? If you can't work on the problem unless you admit you have a problem, but admitting you have an issue or admitting something is there isn't the same as doing something about it.

Like I know, all of us know, I don't know one person on the planet that doesn't know that like sugar is bad for you or that we should move and drink water and get sunlight, right? Like very basic things.

But yet so many of us don't drink enough water, drink 700 coffees, sit there and we go, oh yeah, I should work out, but whatever.

Because knowing is very different than doing.

That's why I hate the saying, if he wanted to, he would, because there's a lot of people that want to do a lot of things, but if you don't have the bandwidth and the capacity, it's going to be very difficult.

And so for most people, they're stuck between intellectualizing and actually implementing and integrating.

And it is possible, as we know.

Yeah

... yeah, of course you shame somebody and they brought them back in their tribe.

Now we use it to exile people.

So if we can actually show ourselves compassion, which compassion releases more dopamine.

If we can validate our lived experience so that you don't feel like you're a fucking nut job for doing it, and then if we can start to say, "What are the things I needed in this moment right now outside that are not an external?" Right? Is it me saying that I'm okay and I'll be fine and maybe I should go for a walk and drink some water? 'Cause like a plant, you need sunlight and you need hydration.

But I want anyone to listen to understand you're not broken.

There's nothing to fix.

Mm-hmm.

Was he a revenge fuck?

He was a I've got nothing to do tonight and I don't wanna be alone fuck.

I found out later, ironically, that he had just had kind of a similar situation.

This girl that he was dating, it didn't work out.

And so both of us kinda came to this date of saying, "We have nothing else to do.

Let's just, like, go out for a drink." And he lived three blocks away, which will come into play.

And so I remember we were there, and the whole night's going on.

So if you were to coach 24-year-old Sabrina, what would you tell her to do to make, to set herself up for success in this kind of relationship within the capacity that this man had?

[laughs]

... and just like going in circles and being like, "Oh, I got this." And all of a sudden in the corner of my eye, it's like the house is here, I'm like, oh, good, good separation from it, so like it would take me a minute to like get back.

I just started biking, and I look over and I see this like old white car with these two massive dudes in it.

Like, something just didn't feel right.

It felt very sinister.

And I was like s- I've never seen this car before.

We were in a cul-de-sac, so you kinda know like who's coming in and out of your place.

But I'm so interested in that and how there's almost, like, a new imprint.

you know you're tapping

on your acupressure points and the therapist said what do you believe about the breakup and i said it's all my fault she goes okay let's go with that and so i kept saying it's all my fault i'm an idiot it's all my fault so she repeats it back she goes you're right it's all your fault and all of a sudden it just it like it was this chink in the armor and i said but it couldn't have all been And I saw a smile and she's like, you're right.

It couldn't have all been your fault.

And just in that moment going, no, what I experienced in my childhood wasn't OK.

I felt free.

And it didn't wasn't like this kumbaya moment where all of a sudden I never didn't.

It's like, no, no, no.

What do you think is like the biggest thing you've seen in regards to dating and patterns that comes up in your work with clients?

But I wanna start out with your biggest announcement, which is you have a new book out.

I do.

It's called Why Am I Like This? And it really is the amalgamation of all of my neuroscience, psychology, personal experience to help people break their patterns and actually get the life, uh, get the life they want, not even just deserve, because that is inherent, and I believe every person deserves only the best.

But this is really about what it is that fuels you and fulfills you, and understanding how breaking these patterns, at least for me, changed my life.

'Cause I, I'll give you a quick background.

I, when I was 19, I was diagnosed as, uh, borderline personality disorder, and I was hopped up on medication for five years, and I didn't feel.

I was completely numb to the world.

Mm.

I like that message that you give because I think it's easy to say, "Well, you did this to me, and I'm the victim," but also it's like, but why do you keep putting yourselves in those situations where this can happen to you? And you have to take that back and say, you know, "I've done that." Um, why do you think so many smart, successful women end up in the same unhealthy relationship patterns?

Patterns are the clearest indication for us that that's something that we can actually look at internally.

So as I was writing, it's interesting, when I first started writing the book, and why am I like this started, came out of the amalgamation of my career, right? Neuroscience, psychology, personal experience coming into one place to say, you make total sense, but let's actually look at what it is.

And I think for most people in general, when you start to go through a pattern, we have to remember, if it was all just about will, if everything was just, if I think positively, thus my life will change, then none of us would be where we are, and that's why that feels like platitudes.

And, like, it's, it's, it's reductive to just say, "Oh, just think positive," or, "Just do this, and you're gonna feel better." I think for a lot of us, when we're in our prefrontal cortex, which is the part of our brain that is more developed when you're in your late 20s into your 30s, that starts to really form.

That is your executive functioning.

That is where you start to make more.

Um, but what is one mindset shift that completely changed your own relationships with healing?