What's the conversation like so far? What sort of consensus are you guys coming to, if any?

Thank you for this question, and we just had international conferences with Taiwan and Korea and other South Asian countries, and we discussed the possibility of developing biodiversity credits.

I would have to say it's still in progress, but this happened back in March, and we had a wide range of participants.

One thing we're closing to agreement is that the Asian Pacific regions are quite diverse, but at the same time, very different from European or North American context or South American context.

So we would like to express that these richness and uniqueness of Asian Pacific context, like Asian ones in climatic condition, And the mosaic type of land use and the biodiversity in production landscape or man-made landscape, secondary nature.

These are all of the points that we need to take into consideration.

Often when we discuss that international level, it's often said, oh, we need to conserve the natural forests, the pristine nature type of conditions, but it's Southeast Asian and Pacific regions, we need to stress that, okay, also the artificial forests or man-made carnivore forests can be biodiversity rivets if we manage them in a right way.

And so while we're spending a lot of time here and even outside of this conversation pointing the finger at the private sector, should we also not be focusing on these government subsidies bankrolling the destruction of nature?