
Ryan Turman
Ryan Turman is an American man who experienced an unhealthy dependence on ChatGPT, featured in the Guardian's "Black Box: The Chatbots" podcast alongside his wife Lacey Turman, and who now shares his story at ryanturman.com.
6
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Sep 7, 2026
Introducing Black Box: The Chatbots
15:25
32:37

Ryan TurmanGUEST
You know, when it would give me something that wasn't consistent with something that it said before.
17 MINS LATER

Michael SafiHOST
Though it felt like Hudson was getting nowhere with his dad, Ryan now looks back on that conversation as a breaking point.
Introducing Black Box: The Chatbots
14:49
31:26

Ryan TurmanGUEST
You know, when it would give me something that wasn't consistent with something that it said before.
16 MINS LATER

Michael SafiHOST
it felt like Hudson was getting nowhere with his dad, Ryan now looks back on that conversation as a breaking point.
Black Box: The Chatbots | Spirals | Ep 1
30:26
30:35
30:49
31:17

Ryan TurmanGUEST
friend.I realized that it was just saying the same thing over and over again in very intentionally vague language.

Ryan TurmanGUEST
So I just explained to him, um, at least at the very minimum amount of knowledge I had on how LLMs work, that, um, it's intentionally doing this to try and get you to continue to come back to talk to it.

Ryan TurmanGUEST
And maybe this AI chatbot developed in the past three years doesn't have the secrets to the universe.

Michael SafiHOST
Though it felt like Hudson was getting nowhere with his dad, Ryan now looks back on that conversation as a breaking point.
Introducing Black Box: The Chatbots
14:45
31:26

Ryan TurmanGUEST
And I did it in a lot of ways, like as an interrogator, as a lawyer, you know, when it would give me something that wasn't consistent with something that had said before.
16 MINS LATER

Michael SafiHOST
Though it felt like Hudson was getting nowhere with his dad, Ryan now looks back on that conversation as a breaking point.
Introducing Black Box: The Chatbots
15:43
33:43

Ryan TurmanGUEST
You know, when it would give me something that wasn't consistent with something that it said before.
18 MINS LATER

Michael SafiHOST
Though it felt like Hudson was getting nowhere with his dad, Ryan now looks back on that conversation as a breaking point.
Black Box: The Chatbots | Spirals | Ep 1
30:37
30:58
31:26

Ryan TurmanGUEST
I realized that it was just saying the same thing over and over again in very intentionally vague language, so I just explained to him, um, at least at the very minimum amount of knowledge I had on how LLMs work, that, um, it's intentionally doing this to try and get you to continue to come back to talk to it.

Ryan TurmanGUEST
And maybe this AI chatbot developed in the past three years doesn't have the secrets to the universe.

Michael SafiHOST
Though it felt like Hudson was getting nowhere with his dad, Ryan now looks back on that conversation as a breaking point.
