[gentle music] So step one is get everybody to, to, to, uh, prototype and experiment.

From there, then you start building things that didn't exist before.

And so, oh, wow, okay, you prototyped this new dashboard, very simple.

Or you prototyped this niche solution that nobody out there could build a SaaS business for, but gosh, it's really great at your business.

Like, so all of a sudden people start doing that.

Um, and the ones that are load-bearing, maybe they have a data source or, or they're used by many employees, put that into centrally into an innovation AI or, or IT team, harden it, make sure it passes the governance, create the right control panes, and then send it back out to your employees for the last mile delivery.

And how's that, uh, been on your broader career journey in terms of roles in, um, sales and go-to-market, and maybe what's been different about the last 17 months at Lovable?

Yeah.

Um, how'd you make the choice to do the Lovable thing?

Yeah.

Uh, it was, it was sort of serendipitous actually.

It, it, um...

So I was at Klaviyo and very fortunate.

Andrew's built an incredible business from...

I was there from $60 million to well over a billion ARR.

[laughs]