So what does that, how does that sort of manifest?

yeah i think to your point both things are true you know we definitely have seen um the unfolding in an almost astounding way of uh ministries crumble and in you know certain leadership problems and personal problems get put out on the table and we have to have if we look back at the bigger picture we have to have a sense of somewhere in all of this god is allowing it because he's perfecting his church and it's very painful and disruptive in a sense But the other side of that is some of what we hear as like pain from people may be.

unrealistic expectations.

And I think there's an art when you connect to anybody, right? Like I've worked with people in the professional spaces and I've worked with people in the ministerial spaces that one of the things I try to do is to be studious about a person.

So there's a leader in my life that's taught me so much, one of the most brilliant genius leaders I've ever known, but they are highly introverted.

So if I go into a space with them and I expect the experience of an extroverted leader, I'm really gonna be disappointed.

And to the example you gave, if I'm saying, I need five hours from you a week, it's never gonna happen.

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