Right.

I just was, you know, I would, I would see the shiny little carrot of something like a Wolf of Wall Street and thought, "Oh, that looks like a great life.

Let's try and do that one." Into sales when I was, like, 18, trying to do this and- This and that.

And I think almost for s- for someone like me, I had to kinda fall on my face a little bit first to really get that humbling.

And I s- I was saying in the gym earlier, it's like that fighting, the even training MMA, so I can really s- 'cause you're getting humbled all the time.

I think y- I, I would've got that if I, if I was training MMA.

But running was for me the sort of the pursuit that ended up giving me that humbling, you know, made me realize that there's, there is so many points where you'll give up and you will f- like you can, you will quit if, if it gets tough enough.

Mm

Yes

...

it was naturally building in me, and it, it got to a point where I was like, "Right, I, you know, I'm sick of the cleaning jobs that aren't giving my life any meaning, and I'm sick of just living in the routine that, that also feels meaningless, so I'm gonna-- I need inspiration.

I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna quit everything." Saved up a couple grand, and I just one-way flights just around the world, just hoping to be inspired really more than anything.

And then it was that journey that I went to Kenya, started running with all these big dog Kenyans that were absolutely rapid, and then met this Italian man who'd been cycling around the world, and it was just a conversation with him that was way out of the zone of conversations I'd had or role models that I'd had in my life before.

And, you know, he had a bike and a pannier bag, and he had his, all his possessions in, in, in his bag, and he'd just camp around.

And it sounded mental to me at the time, and it often sounds mental to people that, you know, don't live in that world when I s- tell them the story.

Yeah