Yeah, so it does sound a bit mad to think

that Spice Department started as a failed cheese company, but it really did.

And in 2015, I had the slightly wacky idea to move to India, having been there for the first time in 2011, and it got completely under my skin.

And I just wanted to be involved in India in some way and thought that the Indian... wine businesses were growing massively and there was a huge kind of spike in consumption of wine.

So I thought, what goes really nicely with wine? Cheese.

Actually, you know, when we'd been to India, you couldn't find good British hard cheese.

So I thought, oh, there's a slightly wacky idea.

How do you instill that and also make sure that as you get bigger, that doesn't disappear?