I'm with you so far

... good.

All of his zany antics on the farm.

And there have been a couple movies, and this is the latest one, and it is Halloween-themed.

The general premise is that Shaun and, you know, his sheep family are looking forward to doing a big Halloween celebration, but then their farmer accidentally destroys their pumpkin patch.

So Shaun goes mad scientist to, like, grow one pumpkin seed back into a pumpkin so Timmy can make a jack-o'-lantern.

And of course, things spiral out of control [laughs]

[laughs]

I was so close.

Yeah.

It's gonna be Thelma & Louise, which I re-watched last month for another pod, and I was just...

Look, like, we're talking about how, like, the sci-fi Ridley stuff felt very prescient, and obviously, like, set major trends.

What was astonishing to me watching Thelma & Louise is just how much it feels like none of the America depicted in that movie has changed.

[laughs] The misogyny is still the same.

Um, sort of these questions of, like, when is a woman telling the truth? What does a woman wanna do with her life? Leaning in.

Hmm

Yeah.

So, like, for people who haven't read Heat 2, it is simultaneously a prequel and a sequel.

So as Sean said, there is this prequel element in Chicago where we learn that, like, Neil and Vince had a connection through- ... serial killer, and then there is, like, a sequel part of it, which is, like, Chris getting involved with, like, a Chinese family who is, like, arms dealing because, like, of course they are.

the inciting incident of that, was that conversation.

Yes, this was the inciting incident of that, yes.

But I do think the thing that I, I at least I do wanna say, like, I'm glad for...

Look, I don't, I don't enjoy Obsession.

I didn't think that it was doing what it set out to do.

Mm-hmm

...

Because we don't wanna spoil anything for listeners.

I think that the third episode is the best episode by far of the season.

I think it is the one that is actually saying something that you are alluding to, Glenn, which is this question of, like, being non-white in a white country, which is what America essentially, you know, claims it is at this current moment in time.

[laughs] So I think that there is that element, and that's really interestingly handled in three.

I think there are thoughtful things being done here in terms of what is good, quote-unquote, representation and what would be the realities of being someone in this country trying to measure up to, like, a white ideal, how infuriating is that? I think that's in three.

[laughs]

What does anybody could cook mean to you and the film Ratatouille?

I think it's interesting that it's anybody can cook because Remy is good at cooking because he has this, like, exceptional palate [laughs].

So, like, yes, anybody can cook, and, and so I think that it is, on the one hand, this, like, very inclusive, beautiful message.

I'm singling out Remy here, too, but, like, I think maybe my favorite scene, actually, in the movie is the revealed backstories of everybody who works in the restaurant, that they're all coming from these disparate walks of life.

And not all of them are necessarily, like, classically trained, but they come together each night to work the line and put out food that people are really excited about eating.

So I do think that there is, like, a beautiful sort of communal equalizing thing happening in the kitchen.

But I like that you brought up The Incredibles because I do think there is a shared [laughs] like anybody can do this mentality to these movies, but that's not actually true.

Uh, yeah, so, so what is it, uh, that stands out to you about this period and, and how this movie, you know, sort of fits into it?

Yeah.

Right? The thing is, men commit violence against women, and what is another man going to do about that? And so it's interesting that the progression has been from the book, when he, like, interrupts this rape, helps Max Cady get sent to prison, and then, yes, is, like, targeted by Max after his return.

To have that, like, evolve into Nick Nolte's character and Marty's also being, like, a horn dog, like, yes, he is [laughs] like, he is willing to send Max to prison and he, like, breaks his legal vow by doing that, but he's also, like, a scumbag, and he also, like, doesn't treat women well.

And so it becomes this interesting conversation of, like, does Sam hate Max or fear Max because he thinks Max is, like, an evolved Pokemon version of him, right? Like, what is the, what is the level of, like, violence-

Oh, yeah

... yeah, this is during his interview.

It's, like, during his, like, first TV interview, is that his father was stationed in, like, Basque Country, and he, like, impregnated his mom, and then he dipped.

And his mom had mental problems because this show hates women, and so she kills herself, and he gets sent to the US to live with the dad who didn't want him, and then, like, raised him in Cape Fear in the dog cage with Juliette Lewis as his half-sister who hated him and then was fucking him.

Mm-hmm.

But then we don't have any sort of, like, glimpse into how she continues to feel about that or continues to process that, and it's just a very weird loose end in this film where, like, Neve Campbell's character is like, "Fuck yeah, I'm hot," and Nancy is like, "Fuck yeah, I'm powerful," but there is nothing furthering the Rochelle characterization.

And so for that I do go back to, like, what Rachel True has said about making this movie and, like, how frustrating and limiting it was because it feels like there should be another act there [laughs] for that character-

Valid.

And then Nicholas has sex, I guess, with her bro- stepbrother, and reveals that he is bi.

And then she still puts a love spell on him because she's like, "No, I like him." [laughs] So she puts a love spell on him, and then apparently the next day the teacher tells them that he died by suicide the night before.

She tells her friends about the love spell, and then they reject her for casting-

I really enjoyed watching this and in some ways kind of soured me toward the other two adaptations because I enjoyed this so much.

Wow.

Okay.

Well, I think that is a, you know, again, I'm like, how could Rudy think that? Because we have to talk about the 91 version, which is directed by Marty Scorsese and written by Wesley Strick.

And I think this is the one that maybe looms largest over film Twitter, just because Robert De Niro as Max Cady is so bizarre.

Yes.

It is a true...

Like there is, it's literalized with this drug that the son is constantly given that makes him lose personhood.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I also think there are moments, and again, not that this is necessarily new, but that I at least liked seeing here where kind of what Linda was talking about, where the fact that Nora is sort of, she's a Black woman, she's an alcoholic, she has all these things, and it's always just like simmering beneath the surface of her interactions.

There's also just moments where you see the Emmy Rossum character, Alice, in a room with like mostly white men, and they're talking about victims as if like, they'll use the terms that are not sensitive, right?

Right.

Like at one point one of them is like, "How do we know that this person isn't just like trying to get money? They're a prostitute.

Like, how do we know that they weren't just trying to get money?" And then, you know, Alice is like, "Well, no money has been withdrawn from the people who have been killed, so I don't think that's the issue." And like Alice knows all of these things that these men don't understand.

And have we seen that before? Sure.

Uh, one specific aspect of it, which we'll get to, but, uh, what was your overall impression?

I also am generally pro.

I mean, I think the thing about the first season which worked so well for me is that it is just a restaurant.

It is a claustrophobic restaurant with a lot of people who have decided that they don't care about anything because that's the only way to get by in this world, coming together to, like, make sandwiches.

It's fine.

It's very small scale.

I think it is as ideologically satisfying about the nature of work as, like, any of our other great workplace-

Mm-hmm.

[laughs]

... over the course of the rest of her career.

But um, I remember just thinking like in that movie of so much, and this was her purpose, right? Like, this was the point.

But in this movie of like so much ... dour, awful, muddy, terrible things.

It was like, "Oh, you're the one normal person in this, like, milieu." And I sensed, like, a deep melancholy from this actress, which I think really worked for what that film was supposed to be.

And then I think eventually when I re-watched Hook with the understanding of Gwyneth-

Yeah

...

Mm-hmm

... which I think is really interesting, and I think you get that in this film.

And then of course, like, as he loses his hearing, it changes, I think, how he, of course, relates to that sense, but also I think relates to, like, the entirety of his physical frame.

And I think that comes through in this movie as he is learning sign language, as he is learning, like, oh, the reverberations I can feel throughout my body rather than just feel or hear.

So I think there's just a lot, like, on the level of what is he doing with not just his face, 'cause he's a great face and eye actor, as we've talked about.

Yeah.

I mean, it is the role.

I think Riz is one of the few people I've seen recently who has really done something different.

Here we go, Jeff.

And then Matt said, "I discovered Filmspotting only recently, drawn back into film criticism by The New York Times' poll on best films of the 21st century and Filmspotting's similar episode.

What has kept me listening are a few things.

First, the depth of analysis, which routinely pushes past simple points to get to more complex interpretations.

Second, the great conversations between Adam and Josh, who build on each other's points so well.

And third, the frequent mentions of personal viewing gaps and homework, which remind listeners that we're all still learning, that there are still great films out there for all of us to see.

I love that open acknowledgement of blind spots, which is really an invitation for us all to keep on watching." That's so nice.

Mm-hmm

Yes.

And I do think a lot of Heat mimicries either just hit sort of the same beats without the soulfulness of the original, or they stay, like, so outside of it that it doesn't actually feel like Heat.

It becomes this other thing, right?

Soap, yes, yes

... which is really propulsive, very fun.

The characters, especially the female characters, are some of the best that I've seen in this genre on television in a long time.

We didn't talk about the character of Charlie yet-

No, I think it's just kind of endearing, pretty damn accurate.

And there's a mystery about her that has sort of hung over the entire season, and I'm not sure that is working either, this question of, like, a season-long mystery.

I don't think it's doing the character much justice, although Sepideh Moafi's performance is so good.

I'm sort of like, I wanna know more about her rather than knowing more and more and more about Robbie's self-destructive tendencies.

So I just think the show is, like, slightly out of balance at this point in season 2.

[laughs]

And I, I do think that they've done that really well in season two, and I think so many of those sort of like mentor/mentee relationships with people like Langdon and Mohan have that sort of like workplace training the person who might one day replace you and struggling with the responsibility of that.

I think all of that has been done really well this season.

Yeah.

It is a really interesting thing that he has been circling his entire career, and I think it is fascinating, to Jeff's point, to use Bond [laughs] as, like, the filter to process all of that.

So I think it's really heady and really m- meta and very self-aware in a way that is perpetually, like, tripping up the viewer because it's sort of, like, pointing at you and telling you to remember, like, "Remember when we wanted Idris Elba to do this role?" Like, "Remember when the Internet was fighting?"

That is BTS: The Comeback Live, and that is streaming on Netflix.

What is making me happy, so Liza Minnelli has a new memoir out called Kids, Wait Till You Hear This.

But that's not what's making me happy because I haven't read it yet.

I'm sure it'll be great.

What is making me happy is that it made me return to the great TV concert film from 1972, Liza with a Z.

aesthetically no it's fine you know like

if you are if you are gonna copy some dudes uh derek and nicholas are fine to copy and i remember you know uh admiring that and thinking like my man has taste um but also thinking which i still think that it sort of felt like our guy baby goose had this idea of sort of like a dark fairy tale sort of like a return to Oz thing but Oz is America and I remember liking a lot of things within it but not thinking that it entirely came together yeah which is I think how I still feel But there is so much here in terms of like these weirdo vignettes and details and sort of suggestions that he makes about forgotten places.

And as you said, towns that drown that I really still love.

And I find like a lot of.

pleasure in watching um but there are also certain things about this movie that i really hate so it's hard it's like it's difficult to sort of talk about because it's so odd but there are some ideas that are so fucking strong that you're like wow he was really onto something here about like how we forget and then how we destroy and how entertaining it is for us to watch other people's misery because that's essentially like the club that ben mendelsohn makes in these towns that he says he creates in every single lost river he visits and i liked um so much that it is sort of saying about like how you're tied to a place that you're born in, and what does it take to sort of like break through the tragedy and the spell, right? There's a lot of like very interesting stuff.

And you also, once you watch this, what I always remember is that like Gosling is like a Disney baby.

There's so much.

She's incredible.

Roxanna, did you take The Beauty and did it work for you?

I would not take the beauty.

I'm perfectly fine with my aggressive features.

Did it work for me? This is like always a loaded question with a Ryan Murphy show.

What I will say is that I found myself thinking about it and wrestling with it for a long time after watching it, which is like more than I could say for a lot of Ryan Murphy sort of shows I think if you're like on their wavelength usually they are very candy like right like you binge them you feel sick you forget about it but I do think that the beauty is throwing out so many ideas about like beauty standards big pharma the suggestion that we are like kept away unwell because it makes other people wealthy.

I think, interestingly, a lot about like male loneliness and like misogyny and violence and how those are tied to attractiveness.

It has a lot.

the fans.

What'd you make of the film?

I think it is exceptional.

I think it is in terms of craft, fascinating in the way that I think it like really refuses any sort of genre.

Like it is absolutely a political thriller.

It is absolutely a character study.

It is also hilarious.

Yeah.

But just this idea of this being a movie made kind of in secret, I think lends itself a very special nature.