Seth, Rosemary told us a story about a time when Herbert and the family were staying at their Aunt Martha's house.

At one time, um, Ben's dad was beating me up in the, in her house, and I knew she didn't like me, but she stomped her foot and she says, "Herbert, Herbert, don't you beat that woman in my house.

Take her out there and beat her out there." She didn't try to defend me or anything.

She just wanted me to get beaten outside.

So, um, at that time, I knew I, I was, I didn't belong there.

I didn't...

I just needed to, to go.

A bunch of bus trips later, we were in Sacramento, California, and then my mom saw a note on a telephone pole that said, "If you don't have anywhere to go for Christmas Eve or Christmas, call this number."