what I wanted to make with this one which was more of a like general love song zoomed out perspective on love instead of like obviously it has one personal meaning to me but like I think in the lyrics I wanted to tackle that as a challenge and I think I hadn't written until then that type of straight down the line love song and I think to reflect on that the reason is because I didn't feel like I was equipped enough as a songwriter to be able to do that type of thing up until when i wrote that song i really don't like personally finding out what an artist has written their lyrics about because it takes away the magic for me because i think well that's not what that's about to me because sometimes i think oh more general lyric is better because it means more people can connect to and it's more open and sometimes i think no more specific lyric is better because it's like pointing out a small detail or something and really like i think it's quite good to have both they're like very much been worked and reworked and that's just kind of like how it was with this record which isn't always the way that i write I don't know, my lyrics were more abstract in the past and I think I wanted to hone in on being able to do more literal songwriting, which actually I find personally harder.

I find it easier to make some cool images.

And what's really interesting is like, how do you know when it's doing, you know, the concept justice, the subject matter justice?

Yeah, I guess it's just, it's something that feels right and it clicks.

And like, I've spent a lot of time Like, over these last few years or however long I've been writing songs, these few decades, thinking, like, what makes a good lyric? And, like, I don't think there's necessarily, like, a criteria for that.

And a lot of the time it's just what resonates with, like... a certain feeling of the moment and it's about also about like how you're able to translate and sing that and if you connect to it then you're going to sing it in a way where people are going to connect to it and like yeah i've definitely had very different like oh this is what makes a good lyric has to be like clever word play or something it doesn't like sometimes that makes a worse lyric like it's all about the positioning of it But I think my best lyrics are ones that I've naturally sung out as I'm writing the melodies.

Like, yeah.

And the halfway around the world is an example.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, I guess like the last couple of weeks I've been finding it difficult to like connect to any type of album.

And like this album is, as I said, it's all I've been listening to just because it's so deeply relatable.

Like obviously as many people, cause it's a very famous album, but like what I like about it is the fact that it's like, so, relatable in that it's like oh maybe life isn't going your way but it's alright and I like the way that she expresses like all the different sides that we have in ourselves and it's almost like it covers all bases and Like, I love lyrics with contrasts in, and it's almost like, you know, sometimes when someone tells you, like, oh, things are going to improve, everything is going to be all right.

Like, as in, like, this will pass, and then you kind of think, well, no, it probably won't because it's all consuming and you're in it.

And then there's the lyric in Ironic, which I actually wrote down because I didn't want to butcher it.

Really great.

So when did, when did the song sort of stop feeling like a, an experiment and then, and when did it sort of start feeling like an album?

I think just like when I wrote the first one and I thought, oh, this is really good.

Like this needs releasing.

And it was Sorry Anyway.

And I wrote it with Sam, Sammy Yamaha, who I wrote quite a lot of the songs with.

And we were just sort of like messing around, writing music for fun.

And then that song came out.

What did this album teach you that you maybe couldn't have learned inside Let's Eat Grandma?