Mm.

Um, I try to take it from that viewpoint, that this is not just a process to follow for the sake of a process, and I constantly have to remind the rest of management as well that it's not just a tick box with a, a desired outcome.

We truly need to spend some time considering any proposals that, or counter proposals, any alternative feedback and options.

And luckily, I've, I've been fortunate to work with some CEOs who was very open-minded and was actually thoroughly considering, and has also got, um, you know, that strong empathy for people and sensitivity.

Um, I think for me, the toughest ones were actually, um, during restructurings, were making migrants redundant and knowing-

Do you notice a difference in how the dispute develops depending on who's representing the employee, or for that matter, how your employer is choosing to be represented?

Yes.

Thanks, Lisa.

What have been your experiences and how do we improve the system?

Good question.

My experience was, well, not so recently anymore, but during the COVID period where the borders were closed and only citizens and residents were allowed back in through the airports.

businesses found themselves suddenly, we're back in business, people are back in the offices, but we don't have the skills, we don't have the right talent on board, and we don't have enough staff.

We couldn't recruit.

We actually wrote to Immigration New Zealand.

We applied for special exemption, for border exemption visas.

you've dealt with pgs where lawyers have been involved and others where employment advocates have been involved do you notice a difference in how the dispute develops depending on who's representing the employee or for that matter how your employer is choosing to be represented