Mm-hmm.

Why are they willing to be underpaid? Why are they willing to, um, be in, uh, working conditions that are substandard? And the reason is because it's a lot better than their conditions back home.

Um, there, and, you know, the, the other part of this, so let's say I'm a 20-something and I come over, right? And I'm paid 60,000 instead of 90,000 for a job.

Well, that 60,000 is still a huge premium over what I would get paid back at home, which is maybe 10 or $12,000 a year.

And then secondly, even if I come just temporarily for three or four years, or maybe even six years, I've got now customer-facing, uh, experience.

And so when I return home, instead of getting that 10 or 12, I'm gonna get 18 or 20,000 because there's a wage premium to having been in the US.

The other part of it is there's an incentive because the employer can then choose to sponsor me for a green card, and that's kind of the golden ticket.

Um, but what, what are some of the, you know, horror stories that have been publicly reported about, uh, you know, how some of these companies have, have treated some of these workers?

But what do you think explains the kind of obvious, uh, radical difference in his position on this issue?

Uh, uh, i- it's hard to, uh, to figure out what they're talking about or what he's talking about here, because, uh, as he said in the first clip, he actually campaigned with some of the Disney workers, and that's a very famous case where in Orlando, Disney, uh, which had record profits, forced 250 of its tech workers to train their H-1B replacements.

Um, and he knew that the reason was because Disney could get a 40% discount on the H-1B workers and they, the, the Disney were, the American workers are the ones who had the more, had greater skills.

They're the ones who were training the H-1B (laughs) workers.

So his claim that, you know, we're bringing in these foreign workers, in this case from South Korea because Americans aren't capable, it's just the opposite of what he experienced with Disney, right? Where the D- the American workers had the skills and were training, uh, the, the H-1B replacements.

Now, in terms of what his administration has done, if you read h- he issued a, a, an executive proclamation back in September on the H-1B program, uh, raising the fee to $100,000 and some other things.

But if you read the preamble to that, uh, proclamation, he diagnoses, uh, his administration diagnoses the problems, which is that the H-1B program is used for cheaper labor.

How do you assess the politics of all that?

They have a lot of relationships within the Democratic Party.

Sure.Yeah, so, uh, so with the Silicon Valley side, what's been fascinating to me is, um, it's been so important to them that, in fact, the celebrity CEOs have come out and either written op-eds or actually, you know, uh, testified before Congress.

So Bill Gates from Microsoft, famously, Eric Schmidt, uh, Google CEO at the, at the time, Michael Bloomberg, you know, who, uh, is the chair of Bloomberg News, um, all have said, you know, "We need vastly more.

We need infinite number of H-1Bs." So certainly they, you know, to them, it's a no-brainer.

"We need, uh, lots more." Now their motivations are, uh, uh, um, multifold and part of it actually ties into these outsourcing firms, um, that have dominated really, um, the...

They've had a plurality of the, the visas over the last 20 years, um, and we have data going back 20 years of who gets the visas.

So y- you know, when you think of H-1B, super specialized skills, you know, in reality, these are people with ordinary skills.

Bernie Sanders ha- has ha- put out, uh, some very interesting statements earlier this year, but I- I'm not aware of anything beyond that from most of the Democratic Party.