And sometimes maybe perhaps people are a little bit excited about data, or maybe there's misconceptions about the value of data in a raw form.

Yeah, I believe we are excited about data, but we need to take a step back before and also to the level of transformation that we see.

And obviously, I often feel that we are talking very much.

Okay.

We used to have the traditional model in the past.

Now it's all about direct to consumer and data.

And when we take a step back, actually, what are we really trying to do? The first step to create value is to make your competitions or your property, your club, your league as valuable as possible to the fan.

When it comes to this idea of, you know, kind of owning fans or, you know, what does a valuable relationship look like for an organization like UEFA in terms of trying to balance out when you're driving people towards your own channels versus you're happy to push them towards other channels? Just that kind of that fragmentation of experience that fans are going to have that they don't just necessarily go to one place and trying to extract as much value out of them through your own channels, but also understanding that it is quite a different journey for every different user.

And sometimes maybe perhaps people are a little bit excited about data, or maybe there's misconceptions about the value of data in a raw form.

I believe we are excited about data, but we need to take a step back before and also to the level of transformation that we've seen.

And obviously, I often feel that we are talking very much, okay, we used to have the traditional model in the past.

Now it's all about direct-to-consumer and data.

And when we take a step back, actually, what are we really trying to do? The first step to create value is to make your competitions or your property, your club, your league as valuable as possible to the fan.

That means it needs to have the right level of visibility.

It needs to have the right stories, the right format, the right stories about the participants, the players, and obviously the right level of drama, etc., And what we've seen is that fans can get closer and closer to that.

When it comes to this idea of, you know, kind of owning fans or, you know, what does a valuable relationship look like for an organization like UEFA in terms of trying to balance out when you're driving people towards your own channels versus you're happy to push them towards other channels, just that kind of that fragmentation of experience that fans are going to have that they don't just necessarily go to one place and trying to extract as much value out of them through your own channels, but also understanding that it is quite a different journey for every different user.

And what does it actually mean to be the chief of marketing and digital at UEFA? Well, usually I say it's two

roles.

The first part of that is getting as many people excited and engaged in our competitions in order to really drive the value of each of these competition brands forward.

Now, that is the demand side, so to speak, but it comes with everything you do about the visual implementation of these brands, how you position them, how you strategize them.

working together with our competition colleagues on how to format the competitions as well, which is quite essential if you think about the classic marketing mix, but then also about how to bring that in front of the eyes and into the hearts of people, which of course we do via our broadcast partners, but we have a large digital operation, which is part of my team, where we are on social, we have the competition apps, we have our own streaming platform, where we bring forward our competition on a daily basis and really try to tell those stories of those various brands from different angles, sometimes behind the scenes, et cetera.

But the point being really driving that emotional connection across the planet and giving people really the chance to feel close to those competitions.

Now that creates, of course, some level of awareness it creates engaged audiences and that is then at the heart of our commercial proposition as well and that's the second role so then of course we work with our commercial partners be that sponsors but also with broadcasters to help them achieve their business objectives so obviously if you come to us to partner with us on a competition You do that because you see a certain return of invest.

As you said, it's not only about the visibility that you get, it's also about the assets that the IP and the assets you can use, like on packaging and so on, which I think, do you think that's an untapped opportunity or that there's little awareness about that?