What are your biggest lessons learned through working in that field and what it means to you?

Yeah.

It's a weird, it's such a weird one.

I said this, you know, at that talk that I was telling you about, you don't plan to become the poster boy for suicide.

Yeah.

If I'm totally honest.

Yeah.

it's like an unspoken thing but really it should be spoken to

At the end of this conversation, our listeners or our viewers think, all right, I'm going to tell someone that I've had suicidal thoughts.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think that's it.

And I always go back to it.

I'm like, the thing that shocked me the most, the thing that hits me is when you go around and for the last, what's it like, over five years now where I've been deep into data and talking to doctors and psychotherapists and things like that.

But still, if I went out and said to the general public, if I said, what does a suicidal person look like to you? Like if I said draw it, right? They'd be like, oh, they're lying down on a psychotherapist, like long leather chair.

And they're explaining to them why they hate their life and they hate themselves.

He wasn't thinking about it from the perspective of other people.

Mm-hmm.

... a club would bring out, like, maybe a video that was fantastic, but it would only be for that day.

You know, there have been some amazing anti-suicide awareness videos being made from the likes of, uh, Wolverhampton, uh, and Norwich as well that did really well.

But I never saw all clubs just come together and actually say, "You know what? We, we stand for this as, as a league.

You know, as a group, as a collective, pushing rivalries aside." And then when you, when I, when I, when I thought about it, I was like, the idea in itself is simple.

Because every time...

I- I'm, I'm an Arsenal fan.

(laughs)