So is it a self-defeating exercise to try to bring the mining industry, I don't wanna say, to hold them to account rather than bring them into the 21st century, but, you know, holding them to account, improving their standards, does that have a negative impact on the transition?

Well, [chuckles] it sort of depends on whether you think the ends justify the means.

And a commitment to mining with principles tells you that the ends don't justify any means, that just because we need metals and minerals for the energy transition does not mean that we can or should run roughshod over the rights of people.

It does not mean that we can or should destroy nature in the process.

Ultimately, we'd be making the problems we're trying to solve significantly worse if we were to do that.

And so in the short term, does it create added complexity or time for you to make sure you have the consent of the local community, that you've done your proper environmental baselining, that you've taken the right precautions to make sure that you don't pollute the water? Yes, it may add a little bit of extra time in the short term, but my gosh, is that going to pay off over decades to come, if for nothing else than just for your own business.

Because let me tell you, there is nothing more expensive for you as a mining company than to have your mine shut down on a day when it should be producing, but it's not, because you've got the local community protesting at your gate, or because you've run out of water, or because you don't have adequate supplies of fuel because they've been cut off by infrastructure that you didn't invest in.

Um, is that speeding up a shift to electrowinning or, or, or to different approaches to, uh, extracting not, not just copper, other, um, minerals?

That's the California translation.

Very diplomatic, David.

Okay, so let's take two issues.

Number one, on the social side, the industry, let's take a country like Australia.

The industry pays more tax in Australia than every other sector combined.

Combined.

So you total up the tax paid by every other sector besides mining.

You know, one stakeholder can make a difference, and so dialogue is very important.